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</head><body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Hi Denis,<br>
<br>
To attack this from a different angle and help illustrate my point, an
analogy to Twitter comes to mind: <br>
<br>
Users can follow other users and automatically get notifications of any
updates. Having similar functionality for publicly available information
such as aut-num and as-set objects<br>
would be wonderful. As others pointed out already, I really don't see
any privacy or confidentiality issues around this, the data is already
publicly available, and in fact<br>
in our case we already monitor such objects, just in a less efficient
manner.<br>
<br>
What's more, if we don't monitor them frequently enough, our customers
(who maintain the objects we monitor) are the ones being affected by a
potentially out of date filter.<br>
<br>
As for the technical side of things, I'm pretty sure we can agree on a
best way forward.<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Aris<br>
<br>
<br>
<span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk">ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk</a> wrote on 24/03/2019 01:30:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1415974653.16345156.1553387451037@mail.yahoo.com">
<div class="ydp7cbdfc3cyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>Hi All</div><div><br></div><div>I haven't given this any in
depth thought yet so it was only my initial reaction. The way I was
thinking is that we already have a request for creating groups of SSO
credentials for maintaining objects that could be managed using the
portal UI. Perhaps registering an interest in being notified of changes
to an operational/resource object could also be done using the portal
UI.</div><div><br></div><div>If a more general service is wanted there
may be other issues to consider, for example:</div><div>-who should be
allowed to monitor changes to data in this way?</div><div>-is there a
need to know what objects are being monitored and by who?</div><div>-if
so only by the object maintainer or public disclosure?</div><div>-does
anyone need to know anything about those who are monitoring objects?</div><div>-what
interface could be used for 'anyone' to register an interest in
monitoring an object?</div><div>-how are they going to be notified of
changes?</div><div>-the original request could be considered as an
operational issue relevant to the purpose of the database as defined by
the Terms and Conditions, if we allow monitoring of any
(operational/resource) object for any reason by anyone are there any
legal implications?</div><div>-should there be limits on how many
objects anyone can monitor?</div><div>-if so how could that be enforced?</div><div>-the
NRTM service is only available to members subject to signing a contract
for it's use and accepting it's Terms and Conditions. By registering an
interest in monitoring changes to a 'substantial' number of objects, it
is in effect (a limited version of) NRTM without a contract</div><div>-should
there be a contract for anyone wanting to monitor changes with Terms
and Conditions attached?</div><div>-...</div><div><br></div><div>If the
community wants such a general service then all such issues can be
looked at, but it is widening the scope.</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>denis</div><div>co-chair
DB-WG</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
</div>
<div id="ydp92fb7e53yahoo_quoted_4126040489"
class="ydp92fb7e53yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Saturday, 23 March 2019, 23:02:58 CET, Liam
Glover <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ldglover20@aol.com"><ldglover20@aol.com></a> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324"><div>Hi Dennis,<div><br
clear="none"></div><div>If this were made possible, I’m curious as to
why it would be easier to do as a member only feature? </div><div><br
clear="none"></div><div>I can see a benefit of this to those who work to
protect users of the internet (and those that might not use it but
could still be impacted) such as law enforcement and security
researchers. For example, it may be the case that an
investigation/research identifies abuse in relation to registered
objects which could be reported as being identified to be the result of
policy violations. An investigation would then be impacted by consequent
changes as a result of the policy violations being recognised and
immediate knowledge of the changes would serve to best direct the course
of an investigation. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Liam<br
clear="none"><div class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324yqt4491112009"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324yqt09281"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">On
23 Mar 2019, at 21:34, ripedenis--- via db-wg <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">db-wg@ripe.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br
clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydpe3100152yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>Hi Aris</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>This is what I
was thinking you were looking for. I just wanted to be clear. Knowing
how the database is structured I can think of ways of doing this, but it
would be for the RIPE NCC to assess feasibility. I think it may be
easier to do it as a service to members than making it a more general
feature for anyone. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Does anyone
else agree on the need for such a feature? If so perhaps we can create a
new Numbered Work Item.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>cheers</div><div>denis</div><div>co-chair
DB-WG</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div>
</div><div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyahoo_quoted"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyahoo_quoted_3583358822">
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<div>
On Saturday, 23 March 2019, 19:21:01 CET, Aris
Lambrianidis <<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:aris.lambrianidis@ams-ix.net" rel="nofollow"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">aris.lambrianidis@ams-ix.net</a>>
wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><div
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612"><div>Hi Denis,<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
We, and other IXPs, create filters (prefix-lists) for services such as
route servers, by parsing aut-num and as-set objects from IRR databases,
such as the RIPE database, using tools such as bgpq3. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Right now, to the best of my knowledge, the only way to maintain those
filters up to date for all of our route server peers, is to periodically
poll IRR databases for changes. <br clear="none">
IMO it would seem more efficient if the database itself notified us of
any changes, rather than us constantly asking the same question(s).<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Does this make sense?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
That said, I can also think of other use cases in which interested
parties having no direct relationship to certain objects and their
maintainers are interested in finding out of any changes, <br
clear="none">
especially in the field of research, but let me not delve into this and
keep things simple for the time being.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Kind regards,<br clear="none">
Aris<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<span><a shape="rect"
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk</a> wrote on 23/03/2019
02:26:</span><br clear="none">
<div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612yqt8748673239"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612yqt86134"><blockquote
type="cite"><div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydp55df0950yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div>Hi Aris</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Can you
clarify one point
about this. Are you saying you want to be notified if someone changes
their data that you have no direct relationship with? So if I maintain a
set object and you are not part of my company and have no direct
business relationship with me and I have no idea who you are, but if I
modify this object you want to be notified?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>cheers</div><div>denis</div><div>co-chair
DB-WG</div><div><br clear="none"></div>
</div>
<div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yahoo_quoted"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yahoo_quoted_3310337349">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Saturday, 23 March 2019, 01:02:48 CET, Aris
Lambrianidis via db-wg <a shape="rect"
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><db-wg@ripe.net></a> wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><div dir="ltr">Hi Wilfried,<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">Thank you for the effort in helping out!<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">Unfortunately this will not do as:<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">1. It notifies via an "out-of-band" method (i.e. email).
This makes<br clear="none">it difficult (but not impossible) to handle
with automation. <br clear="none">Nonetheless, the<br clear="none">more
elegant way would be through an API leveraging a push mechanism.<br
clear="none"><br clear="none">but more importantly:<br clear="none"><br
clear="none">2. the "notify:" attribute has to actually be configured
with an address <br clear="none">of the<br clear="none">interested party
for it to work.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">However I'm looking
for mechanism for interested parties to be notified of<br clear="none">any
changes in objects independently to what the maintainer has configured<br
clear="none">as a notify address.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Kind
regards,<br clear="none">Aris<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div
class="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yqt4670213523"
id="ydp92fb7e53yiv2330514324ydp78d7217eyiv5171044612ydpad051f14yqtfd05341"><br
clear="none">Wilfried Wöber wrote on 22/03/2019 21:50:<br clear="none">>
Hi Aris!<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Is this what you are
looking for?<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect"
href="https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/support/documentation/ripe-database-documentation/notifications/9-2-notification-messages/9-2-1-notification-attributes"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/support/documentation/ripe-database-documentation/notifications/9-2-notification-messages/9-2-1-notification-attributes</a><br
clear="none">><br clear="none">> I may be off-track, of course
:-)<br clear="none">> Wilfried<br clear="none">><br clear="none">>
On 22/03/2019 20:29, Aris Lambrianidis via db-wg wrote:<br clear="none">>>
Dear all,<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Back in the
day, RFC1996 introduced the NOTIFY mechanism in DNS, which
significantly helped with information propagation delay,<br clear="none">>>
as it facilitated the transition from a pull (poll) to a push
(interrupt) model.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> The
problem we, as AMS-IX, are facing is quite similar when it comes to
polling the RIPE database for changes. This seems<br clear="none">>>
inefficient.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Although
the analogy breaks down quickly, as there are no RIPE database
"clients" similar to DNS slave servers<br clear="none">>> parsing
NOTIFY messages, we would love to see any RIPE API created or extended,
or any other mechanism implemented by which<br clear="none">>> a
client "registers interest" for any objects it wants to be notified of
changes.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> As a simple
example, if we were to "register interest" (e.g. via a REST POST or PUT
method) for the AS-AMS-IX-SET as-set object, we would be<br clear="none">>>
programmatically notified whenever the "last-modified" field of the
as-set was changed.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>>
Based on the above, I have 3 questions:<br clear="none">>> 1. Does
something like what is described above already exist?<br clear="none">>>
2. If it doesn't exist, would others be interested on such
functionality?<br clear="none">>> 3. If it doesn't exist, while
knowing that this is only a high level overview of the concept and many
details are missing, is this generally feasible?<br clear="none">>><br
clear="none">>> Kind regards,<br clear="none">>> Aris
Lambrianidis<br clear="none">>> AMS-IX<br clear="none">>><br
clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div>
<br clear="none">
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