<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566466"><span>Hi Nick</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566498"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566497" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566531">I agree the situation we are in is historic. Let me just address your third question "</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525">can we come up with a migration plan from one to the other which can be implemented before the heat death of the universe? (highly unlikely)."</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566557"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566585"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525">The RIPE NCC legal presentation at RIPE 76 made it clear that the responsibility for this personal data is shared between the RIPE NCC and the (mostly) members who put the data into the database. Now collectively I don't believe we can justify holding 2million personal data sets in this database and hide behind the Terms and Conditions's defined purpose as the justification. Now everyone can bury their heads in the sand and pretend this problem doesn't exist and the law on personal data in public databases never changed. But, should you need one, that is not a very good legal defense.<br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566752"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566802"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525">So really the only question that must be answered is "Can we justify holding this amount of personal data on the basis of contacts for administrative and technical issues relating to internet resources and network operations?" If the answer is 'no' then change MUST happen, long before the universe dies.</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566835"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566836"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525">cheers</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566837"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525">denis</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566886"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525">co-chair DB-WG</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566887"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566534"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566525"><br></span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566467"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566471" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566470"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566469"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566468"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566888" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Nick Hilliard via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> denis walker <ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> DB-WG <db-wg@ripe.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, 25 September 2018, 23:46<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [db-wg] PERSON objects in the RIPE Database<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566501"><br><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1537195136705_566500">denis walker via db-wg wrote on 20/09/2018 13:04:<div class="yqt7127721355" id="yqtfd87213"><br clear="none">> This does raise a number of questions:</div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">the requirement for admin-c and tech-c derive from what was thought to <br clear="none">be useful information to have at hand at the time when network <br clear="none">registrations were starting out at the InterNIC, way back in the late <br clear="none">1980s. These token made their way into ripe81 as machine-parseable <br clear="none">fields, then into ripe181.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">This dates from the time when we all had fingerd enabled, for example, <br clear="none">and when SMTP ETRN and VRFY usually returned something useful, and when <br clear="none">gopher was hot stuff and when 2mbit/s links were so outrageously fast <br clear="none">that it was normal to boast about the speed in the DNS PTR records for <br clear="none">your router interface IP addresses. Thankfully we've moved on from at <br clear="none">least some of these things, but they all shared one characteristic: "it <br clear="none">seemed like a good idea at the time".<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Really we have three questions: is what we have both legal and fit for <br clear="none">purpose? (hard to tell), could we bang heads together to come up with a <br clear="none">new schema which would be comfortably legally compliant and technically <br clear="none">fit for purpose? (probably yes), and can we come up with a migration <br clear="none">plan from one to the other which can be implemented before the heat <br clear="none">death of the universe? (highly unlikely).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Nick<div class="yqt7127721355" id="yqtfd26837"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>