<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Hi Lu,</div><div><br></div><div>Are you disagreeing with the proposal, or disagreeing with the implementation details? I have seen several requests to delay implementation, but none with a valid technical reason to not close a security flaw. As I brought up at the microphone, I would love to see a solution built that would allow me to use address space allocated by all RIRs where I am a member in any of their IRR systems. However, that is out of scope for this proposal and would likely require a proposal to all five RIRs to build an authenticated method of validating and documenting IRR records. Please feel free to correct me if there was a technical reason to continue allowing unvalidated space in the RIPE IRR. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Sean</div><div><br>On Jun 14, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Lu Heng via db-wg <<a href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net">db-wg@ripe.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Hi Denis:<div><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Consensus is neither unanimity nor majority.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Below is a quotation from RFC:</div><span class="m_-949919611163582715gmail-im" style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal"><br></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal">"<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">quite often we are </span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">letting the majority win the day without consideration of minority </span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">concerns. "</span></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal"><br></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal"><div>"Lack of disagreement is more important than agreement"</div><div><br></div><div>"Rough consensus is achieved when all issues are addressed, but not necessarily accommodated"</div></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal"><br></div></span><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">We have a disagreement because one of the critical issues of our current network is not addressed.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">If there is one strong disagreement without valid counter argument, the disagreement/issue is therefore not addressed.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">I believe the issue raised in the thread is not properly addressed therefore there is no actual consensus.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">That being said, we appreciate the community effort to have all the RIR co-operated together to fix their IRR, and we also support stopping abuse(even if only to a certain degree) in the ripe database.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Moreover, I do realize procedurally, we were not here in the list while the consensus was reached.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The current process will have my full support if RIR system's IRR can be fixed as a whole, rather than just having one more problem created in another place.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 14 June 2018 at 22:57, denis walker via db-wg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:db-wg@ripe.net" target="_blank">db-wg@ripe.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_600857">Hi All</div><div id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601026"><br></div><div id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601025" dir="ltr">The co-chairs of the DB-WG are talking in the background to the RIRs about how this change will impact the holders of their address space. We are following the points raised here and checking some issues with the appropriate RIRs. The RIPE NCC Database team is also in the loop of these talks so any relevant points can be included in their impact analysis.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601145">As some have already said consensus is not unanimity and there is a consensus to close this security hole in the RIPE Database. Even though the security hole will continue to exist in many alternative and commercial IRRs and will continue to be exploited by abusers for some considerable time.</div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601172"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601173">cheers</div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601184">denis</div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601186">co-chair DB-WG</div><div dir="ltr" id="m_-949919611163582715m_1309814164817909022yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1528315972884_601188"><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_-949919611163582715gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>--<br>Kind regards.<br>Lu<br><br></div></div></div> </div></div> </div></blockquote></body></html>