<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63750"><span>Hi Job</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63768"><br><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63901"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63900">Just to clarify, I agree there is a problem with the current implementation of showing history of operational data. At the time the decision not to show deleted data was arbitrary. As no history had been shown at all before a limited history was offered with the intention to review as more experience was gained on the usefulness of this information. My previous comments were intended as an improvement and clarification of the problem statement.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63902"><br><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63903"><span>cheers</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63904"><span>denis</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63751" class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63760" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63759" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63758" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63905" dir="ltr"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63906" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk" <ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Job Snijders <job@instituut.net>; Database WG <db-wg@ripe.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 25 May 2016, 15:31<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [db-wg] NWI-2 - displaying history for DB objects where available<br> </font> </div> <div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63757" class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv1438525996"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63756"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_63755" style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"><div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55458"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55611">Hi Job</span></div><div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55463"><br clear="none"><span></span></div><div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55613"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612">With the current transfer policy an address block may be split into 2 or more parts. As the address range is the primary key defining the object, each of these parts is a new object and none relate to the old parent object. The deleted parent object is currently not available as history as it has been deleted. <br clear="none"></span></div><div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55648"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612"><br clear="none"></span></div><div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55654"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612">Also if an address range is reassigned it may have been deleted and recreated by the LIR. Although this still has the same primary key, internally it has a different unique object id within the database. The current history feature does not cross boundaries of object ids. So you can only see the history of an object back to the most recent deletion point.<br clear="none"></span></div><div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55665"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55828"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612">So if anyone has a legitimate interest in who held an address range in the past you need to be able to see the history of deleted and recreated objects. The focus MUST only be on resource objects. You should never show the history of personal or security data.</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55829"><br clear="none"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612"></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55830"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612">cheers</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55831"><span id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55612">denis</span></div><div class="yiv1438525996qtdSeparateBR" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55832"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv1438525996yqt4864057082" id="yiv1438525996yqt85162"><div class="yiv1438525996yahoo_quoted" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55746" style="display:block;"> <div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55745" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55744" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55765"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Job Snijders <job@instituut.net><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> db-wg@ripe.net <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, 25 May 2016, 14:57<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [db-wg] NWI-2 - displaying history for DB objects where available<br clear="none"> </div> <div class="yiv1438525996y_msg_container" id="yiv1438525996yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1463926174694_55743"><br clear="none">Dear Working Group,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">This is the second Numbered Work Item.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">(You can review <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2016-April/005190.html">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2016-April/005190.html </a><br clear="none">to ensure you have an overview of the next steps.)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">---------<br clear="none">NWI-2:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> The RIPE NCC was tasked with the following action point: AP69.2<br clear="none"> [RIPE NCC] Come up with some straw man proposals for displaying<br clear="none"> history for objects where available.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> The RIPE Database already provides a mechanism for object history.<br clear="none"> In our understanding the problem statement that motivated the action<br clear="none"> point is that some people are interested in seeing the history of<br clear="none"> *deleted* objects. It is our understanding that this interest is<br clear="none"> mainly focussed on primary (resource) objects.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> However, it is not entirely clear to the RIPE NCC why this is<br clear="none"> useful. We also have some concerns, mainly non-technical, and<br clear="none"> therefore we believe that the problem statement and motivation needs<br clear="none"> to be better defined in the working group.<br clear="none">---------<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The next step is to help refine the problem statement. I would<br clear="none">appreciate it if working group participants with an interest in the<br clear="none">history of objects speak up and elaborate on the issue. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Kind regards,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Job<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>