[db-wg] country codes in the RIPE Database (was: ORGANISATION country code)

Hi Leo

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 at 15:58, Leo Vegoda <leo at vegoda.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 07:18, denis walker <ripedenis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > This is exactly what I said. In the quoted para above I said "the
> > country codes have a well defined meaning", which you agree with. Then
> > I said "but when entered by users no one knows what it's purpose is.".
> > Another way of saying no one knows their meaning in the context of the
> > database, which you also agree with.
> >
> > >
> > > But even if we started to define a meaning at this late stage, who
> > > would choose to use it?
> >
> > In the case of the ORGANISATION object it would be at this 'early'
> > stage. Which I think would be a bad idea. For the INET(6)NUM objects I
> > agree it is at a late stage. But for the last 20 years many people
> > have assumed the country codes relate to geolocation and used the data
> > in that way. If we define it to mean that now, and make it optional,
> > we are aligning reality with what so many people already believe. With
> > clear explanations sent to all resource holders and/or maintainers of
> > the resource objects, I think we could get this message out there.
>
> Setting semantics aside... I don't know whether changing definitions —
> and adding a missing definition is a de facto change — would improve
> things or make them worse. What research do we have to support the
> position that it would be an improvement?

An interesting question. But take a step back and consider the current
situation. We have an element of mandatory data with no definition.
This data has been entered into millions of INET(6)NUM objects but it
has no meaning. No one can reliably use this information for anything.
And yet we know many people DO interpret this data and assume a
meaning for it without any justification. So where we are now is not a
good place.

Let me make a quick modified suggestion. We make "country:" an
optional attribute in INET(6)NUM objects. The RIPE NCC removes this
attribute from ALL existing objects. Consider it as a reset, removing
undefined data. We give this attribute a definition related to
geolocation. Anyone who chooses to add this attribute with the new
definition may do so. Now we have meaningful information that anyone
can use in a reliable way.

cheers
denis
co-chair DB-WG


>
> Kind regards,
>
> Leo