[db-wg] Decision on NWI-2 Historical queries

Hi Sebastian

Can we clarify what historical data you are referring to? Are you
suggesting that absolutely no historical data should ever be made
available from the RIPE Database? Do you think it is wrong to provide
details of what organisation held a specific address block last year
or the year before?

History of personal data held in the database is not available.
Personal data contained in operational object types is removed from
the data returned for a historical query. As far as possible only
historical operational (non personal) data is available through the
historical queries.

cheers
denis
co-chair DB-WG

On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 10:05, Sebastian Wiesinger via db-wg
<db-wg at ripe.net> wrote:
>
> * denis walker via db-wg <db-wg at ripe.net> [2022-04-22 01:33]:
> > Colleagues
> >
> > Although I am replying to your email Cynthia, my comments are
> > generally expressed to all. Let me try again to explain history. I
> > still think there is a misunderstanding about what the RIPE Database
> > is and what it means to publish information in this database. This is
> > a public database. It is available globally to anyone who has an
> > internet connection. Once you publish any information in this database
> > it is public data. The full details of that data will be downloaded
> > and copied by many people. This has almost certainly been done for
> > many years if not decades. There may well be some people out there who
> > have more historical data than the RIPE NCC holds. Anyone who is
> > concerned about privacy should not allow their personal data to be
> > published in this database. Once it is published it is too late to
> > worry about privacy. It is already out there, it is public and it has
> > been copied. You cannot take it back. You may have the right to be
> > forgotten, but you don't have the means to be forgotten once you have
> > broadcast your personal details in public. That is the simple reality
> > of the internet.
>
> I think Cynthia and most people on this mailinglist understand what
> the RIPE database is. Even though you might have entered private
> information in the past it does not mean the database should publish
> these records for ever after they are deleted. You HAVE the right to
> have your information removed from the RIPE database. It's completely
> irrelevant where else that data may have been copied to.
>
> Of course the information might be copied and downloaded by many
> persons but that is no reason to make it easily available to do so
> after this information is deleted.
>
> The database is not "the Internet" and I find this argument highly
> fatalistic. So even when there are places on "the Internet" where this
> data still exists, it doesn't have to exist in the RIPE DB, readily
> available.
>
>
> > So back to historical queries. By providing this service for
> > operational data going back to the start of the database, without any
> > arbitrary restrictions, we remove the need for most people to go to
> > the trouble of building up their own local, private database with a
> > full copy of the data. By restricting access to past operational data
> > on some arbitrary condition we actually monetise the data that some
> > people already hold. We could create a market for some people to sell
> > that data. Just like IPv4, where there is a demand for something, with
> > few options for supply, some people will make money from it.
>
>
> I don't agree with this argument. "We better give people full access
> to the data or bad people will make money of it." Why? Why would
> people pay money to get old data from the RIPE DB. Also this would be
> a black market as it would violate privacy laws. And there are way
> better data sources already available than the RIPE DB data.
>
>
> Best Regards
>
> Sebastian
>
> --
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