[db-wg] NWI-13 Geofeed Legal Analysis

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 9:50 PM, Cynthia Revström <db-wg at ripe.net> wrote:

> I am not sure how you came to that conclusion, the way I read Maria's
> email didn't make me come to a conclusion anything like that.
>
> Maria said:
>
> The RIPE Database is meant to contain specific information for the
> purposes that are defined in the RIPE Database Terms and Conditions.
>
> The RIPE DB T&C and the DBTF report are not the same and the RIPE DB T&C
> could be amended.
>
> Maria also says:
>
> If the community's interests have changed since then and it is now agreed
> that geolocation is one of the purposes the RIPE Database must fulfil, this
> should be decided via the community's processes and reflected in the RIPE
> Database Terms and Conditions.
>
> I feel like this directly goes against what you are saying, it seems very
> clear to me that it is possible to change the purposes.
>


I'll also note that Maria's initial email said: "personal data that is not
required or necessary for the currently defined purposes of the RIPE
Database" with "currently defined" written in big, bold, flashy letters. It
then continues with the paragraph you have quoted above: "If the
community's interests have changed since then and it is now agreed that
geolocation is one of the purposes the RIPE Database must fulfil, this
should be decided via the community's processes…"

I happen to think that Geofeed could easily fall into:
"Publishing routing policies by network operators (IRR)" — part of my
"routing policy" is that 192.0.2.0/24 is in Cologne, and that seems useful
for you to know to build your policy as well
and / or
"Facilitating coordination between network operators (network problem
resolution, outage notification etc.)" — you are seeing long latency to
192.0.2.0/24? Geofeeds tells you that that is in Warsaw, so when you
contact me you can say something like "200ms seems like a long time to get
from Berlin to Warsaw… perhaps we can not route this through Singapore??""
and / or
"Scientific research into network operations and topology" — you are doing
Internet measurements on latency. Why does traceroute to 192.0.2.0/24 take
3ms and 203.0.113.0/24 take 89ms? Well, Geofeeds tells you that one is
in Akureyri and the other is in Lisbon. Seems like worth knowing…

But, the bolding of "currently defined" and the "If the community's
interests have changed since then…" seems to imply that it is at least
worth discussing if we can add Denis suggestion of ""The RIPE Database may
contain data that an agreed set of external services may use, require or
rely on." and if it does actually need "a resolution by the GM to change
the T&C", etc.

Even if we successfully argue that Geofeeds fits into one of the above
examples, it does seem like having the T&C reflect what people want to be
able to use the DB for…

W



> -Cynthia
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2022 at 3:29 AM Ronald F. Guilmette via db-wg
> <db-wg at ripe.net> wrote:
>
> In message <CAKw1M3PZPzwJHoNyGrSAY_2azHeZpTw4aVw7GwCLhmT_qt2CiA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> =?UTF-8?Q?Cynthia_Revstr=C3=B6m?= <me at cynthia.re> wrote:
>
> The purposes could change...
>
> No, they couldn't.
>
> It appears that the RIPE Database Requirements Task Force issued its
> "final report" sometime late last year, and now the wheels have ground on
> further to bring us to the point where RIPE legal has issued an official
> proclamation to the effect that everything that does not comport with the
> Task Force's final list of defined purposes _must_ be jetisoned and thrown
> overboard.
>
> That would appear to be the short version of where things stand now.
>
> Based upon the principal of stare decisis, it would seem to be a bit late
> in the game to try to roll back any of what has already been adjudicated.
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
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