[db-wg] Missing org: fields for direct allocations from RIPE

Ronald

This style of email achieves nothing and is unacceptable on this
mailing list. Most people don't read long emails at all. The language
you use like "bovine excrement", "You throw up irrelevant arguments",
"do not materially screw around" has no place in a professional
discussion. You are insulting the entire RIPE community by your
domineering attitude, suggesting we are all idiots for not listening
to some great American prophet who knows better. You also ignore the
fact that the majority of the RIPE community are not native English
speakers, so your use of fancy words and expressions is totally
wasted.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 at 12:02, Ronald F. Guilmette via db-wg
<db-wg at ripe.net> wrote:
>
> In message <CAKvLzuEjrfJ6zxuxOffwV+iwvSviyAObVdnGiQ96keybezH3uQ at mail.gmail.com>,
> denis walker <ripedenis at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Now personally I totally agree with you. I think it is crazy to have
> >address space documented in the RIPE Database that is owned by
> >unidentified and unaccountable people. When writing policy proposals
> >we have to be clear that it will only apply to legacy space that is
> >subject to a contract with the RIPE NCC. We can't impose policies on
> >this unaccountable space.
>
> Excuse me denis, but we Americans like to call a spade a spade, and
> this... everything you've written and that I've quoted above... is
> all nothing but bovine excrement, sleight of hand, and legalistic
> obfuscation.
>
> You throw up irrelevant arguments about who owns the IP space,
> when everything that *I* have said makes it clear that I don't give
> a damn about THAT can of worms.  The *real* question has nothing
> whatever to do with who owns or who controls the various chunks of
> legacy IP space in question.  The *actual* question is just this:
> Who owns the RIPE data base?  Does that belong to RIPE, or what?
>

"irrelevant" in your opinion.

" everything that *I* have said makes it clear that I don't give a
damn about THAT can of worms"
and of course YOU are always right...

> Can RIPE from time to time make adjustments in the contents of the
> data base, e.g. it order to regularize and normalize it, as may be either
> necessary or convenient FOR THE USER BASE, or is either RIPE or RIPE
> NCC, actually, formally, and (most importantly) *legally* constrained
> and prevented from ever even sweeping out the ancient, annoying, and
> counterproductive cobwebs from its own data base?  You know... the
> one that it maintains and that it publishes for the benefit of every
> Internet user on planet earth?
>
> As long as RIPE and RIPE NCC do not materially screw around with the
> alleged legal (or extra legal) rights of the alleged "owners" or
> "registrants" (as you may prefer), e.g. "rights" (asserted but never
> even proven) to the full use and enjoyment of said IP address blocks,
> then who the hell gives a damn if RIPE performs a small amount of
> data base clean-up, adjustment, or modernization from time to time?
>
> Nobody, that's who.
>
> And to be clear, I have *not* made *any* suggestion that RIPE or RIPE
> NCC should do anything whatever that might have *any* material impact
> on, or effect on *any* of the alleged rights of *any* legacy block
> registrant.  To suggest otherwise is to grossely mischaracterize both
> my goals and what I have actually said.  The data base may be brought
> into a more consistant and regularized state without having any effect
> whatsoever on *any* registrant... except that it may make their stuff
> a bit easier to find via WHOIS queries, as I have illustrated.

To be. clear this is exactly what you are suggesting. You are
demanding that the RIPE NCC adds personal data relating to the owners
of legacy address space into a public database without the consent of
those natural persons or any community agreed policy. This would be in
violation of European privacy laws and the rights of those
individuals.

>
> Have you ever gone to a dentist and had your teeth cleaned?  Or are
> you walking around now with the most smelly and unsightly mouth on
> your side of the Atlantic?  Routine maintenance and/or periodic
> upgrades destroys nothing of value.  Quite the opposite.  These
> things -preserve- a resource so that it will have lasting value.
>
> Have there not been, over time, innumerable other "enhancements" made
> to the data base to make it more internally consistant or more useful?
> If so, then what is the problem with simply arranging that every IP
> block allocation has an associated org: field and an associated
> organisation: record?  What makes this simple, reasonable, and minimal
> adjustment into some sort of inviolable sacred cow?  Is it just the fact
> that this rather obvious fix was suggested by one of those brutish,
> ill-mannered and ill-tempered Americans that makes the idea unacceptable?
>
> I say again, EVERY OTHER ONE of the other four Regional Internet Registries
> support WHOIS queries that make it trivially easy to obtain lists of
> ALL of the IP blocks currently assigned to a given organization.  Every
> one.  But as is often the case, Europe insists of its right to make things
> more complicated than they either need to be or than they should be.
>
> I suppose that by now I should not be surprised.
>
> I'm sorry, but I am short on patience these days, and I'm frankly offended
> that I find myself obliged to kill quite this many electrons just to defend
> an altogether simple and indeed trivial proposition that in any sane world
> would require no defense.

Community consensus requires patience. Your lack of patience is no
excuse to offend an entire professional community.

cheers
denis
co-chair DB-WG

>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> P.S.  I am *still* waiting for my suggestion to force all handles in the
> data base to upper case to receive at least some comment.  But I guess
> that I shouldn't get my hopes up.
>
> P.P.S.  What the devil ever happened to plan to cease publishing the so-
> called NOAUTH data base?  My dim recollection is that that was supposed
> to happen at the end of the first quarter of 2020, or at the end of the
> first quarter of 2021, or at the end of the first quarter of 2022.  I confess
> that I don't even remember anymore, because the past 2+ years have all been
> kind of a blur for me.  I feel quite sure however that this was supposed
> to have been completed by now, and yet it appears that the NOAUTH data base
> is still being published.
>
> --
>
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