[db-wg] Geolocation data prototype in the RIPE Database

Good morning Alex.

On 10/10/11 07:22, Alex Band wrote:
> [...] This causes location and language based web services to be error prone.

Well concerning the languages: Only because my IP address is currently routes 
in for example France doesn't mean I want to be presented with content in 
French. For selecting the content language I set the proper preferences in my 
browser and also rely on the fact that provider of multilingual content 
additionally provide me with a way to select from the languages they serve.

Location based services: If I intent to use a location based service I will 
instruct my front end device to supply the correct location (-> 
http://www.w3.org/2008/geolocation/).

> Some of you have said that this inaccuracy and obscurity is a good thing

Yes, I was one of them. I don't like to provide information like my current 
geolocation unwillingly. This violates my privacy. And as privacy is protected 
by laws you run into trouble as the country specific regulations have to be 
observed. This will result in an incomplete data base, and thus you have to 
achieved the reliability you are aiming at.

A simple way for you to find out the "German position" on this I suggest 
contacting the Bundesdatenschutzbeauftragten 
(http://www.bfdi.bund.de/Vorschaltseite_EN_node.html)

> but others just want a more reliable system and reduce end user frustration and complaints.

As said before, the location will not fix the language problem ...

>[...] or access to location restricted content (such as BBC iPlayer) is blocked.

This is the only situation where I can understand that a correct location is 
required. But in this case the country is enough. And, honestly, this is still 
the wrong way. A better solution would be for the enduser to provide a 
verifyanble token that he is either a British citizen or is currently on 
British territory.

> For some countries such as Belgium and Switzerland, there is no way at all to know or specify in which language content should be presented.

You are correct, and here you also contradict your own arguments from above ...

> With this in mind, what better way than to hand the power to authoritatively specify the usage location and language of an IP address block to its legitimate holder.

As I pointed out before in another email: The one authoritative location 
cannot be given on the net level but only per IP address. Also it would 
require a real time update mechanism and lots of technical engineering to get 
all the POP equipment to provide the correct location for the current location 
of the user of the address. In mobile environment it would be automatic 
triangulation of the devices ...

> We can leave it up to third parties to create databases based on fancy data mining, but this is proven to be problematic as illustrated earlier.

Your suggested way is as problematic as it practically doesn't do anything 
else as to create just another data base based on fancy data mining, and lots 
of more or less reliable data provided by entities possessing a net block from 
the RIPE.

> I would like to emphasise that the Database department did not launch the geolocation prototype on a whim and the usage is completely optional.

If the use is optional than the data base can never by authoritative, because 
she is incomplete. And you will never succeed in making it mandatory as this 
would automatically cause law suits.

Cheers

Hendrik

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