Final Minutes for DB WG at RIPE 41

Hi, All,

Sorry for the confusion, I am reposting my e-mail regarding "SRC::OBJECT"
(response to item 3) again.

Originally I proposed to implement "::" delimiter in "member:" attribute but
this will probably impact the database integrity so it is simpler to start
with
"import:" and "export:" attributes. I think it is better to put the proposal
in its own thread  so people don't have to dig it out in its current form
(sorry about that).

I will reformat my proposal again in another email soon. Thanks.

Ping Lu
Cable & Wireless USA
Network Tools and Analysis Group
W: +1-703-292-2359
E: plu at cw.net


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lu, Ping [mailto:plu at cw.net]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 4:19 PM
> To: 'George Michaelson'
> Cc: db-wg at ripe.net
> Subject: RE: Software change requests for Ripe V3 code
> 
> 
> Comments follwed.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: George Michaelson [mailto:ggm at apnic.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:27 AM
> > To: db-wg at ripe.net
> > Subject: Software change requests for Ripe V3 code
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I spoke to Joao and Andrei today about some changes APNIC would like
> > to see in the ripe V3 code, and we all agreed that in the spirit of
> > code management in an open process, they should be proposed here for
> > wider community review.
> > 
> > So I would like to submit the following three proposals for 
> > changes to the
> > current code.
> > 
> > 
> > 	1) add  country:     [optional]   [single]     [ ]
> > 	   to objects in RPSL schema
> > 
> > 	2) add some -k behaviours to permit generation of DNS zones
> > 
> > 	3) add a cross-correlation attribute to objects
> > 
> 
> I have no problem with item #1 and #2. However I have some comments
> about #3. Please see the following comments.
> 
> 
> > 
> > 1) add  country:     [optional]   [single]     [ ] to objects 
> > in RPSL schema
> > 
> > APNIC currently uses R181 v2 perl to serve whois. We have 
> > existing data which
> > is tagged by countrycode. We would like to maintain this 
> > information in an RPSL
> > schema.
> > 
> > We are manually adding the schema changes to the v3 code, but 
> > we feel it would
> > serve wider convergeance of schema if this was in the global model. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 2) add some -k behaviours to permit generation of DNS zones
> > 
> > APNIC depends on locally developed code which reads the v2 
> > .db files to
> > generate a radix tree view of domain  objects which are of the form
> > 
> > 	domain: z.y.x.in-addr.arpa
> > 	nserver: foo.bar.baz
> > 	nserver: fu.bar
> > 
> > this radix tree is then walked in /8 /16 and /24 forward order so
> > we can make zonefiles for the byte aligned boundaries, and the
> > matching bind named.conf inputs.
> > 
> > We would like to be able to do this via a single pass, 
> > directly from the
> > V3 server. WE have already demonstrated we can emit the 
> sorted list of
> > the domain objects, and so a two pass process can be done, 
> > but it will have
> > a far higher query load. So, we think this proposal will 
> > generate outcomes
> > faster, and for less load on the server.
> > 
> > We also think that this feature would be useful for people 
> > managing other
> > DNS zones.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 3) add a cross-correlation attribute to objects
> > 
> > APNIC is investigating higher-level services for its 
> membership based
> > on correlating data held across multiple servers. TO do 
> this, we need
> > a cross-correlation key. We have also noticed that the 
> > discrete objects
> > held by an organization in whois do not have any binding 
> > cross-reference
> > except in a limited sense between nic-hdl and objects, or 
> > maintainer refs.
> > 
> 
> I am proposing to implement the "::" delimiter specified in
> RFC2725 chapter 9.6.
> 
> === Quote Begin ====
>    To specify an external repository reference, the
>    object key is preceded by the name of the repository and the
>    delimiter "::".  For example a NIC handle may take the form
>    "RIPE::CO19".  Currently there is a desire to keep NIC 
> handles unique
>    so the naming convention of appending a dash and the 
> repository name
>    is used.  Prepending the repository name provides the unique name
>    space since an object in the RIPE database referencing "CO19" would
>    be interpreted as "RIPE::CO19" by default, but it would still be
>    possible to query or reference "IANA::CO19".  There is no 
> possibility
>    of accidentally forgetting to adhere to the conventions when making
>    an addition and the existing objects are accommodated, including
>    cases where name conflicts have already occurred.
> === Quote End ====
> 
> May I suggest that RIPE NCC to implement this first on a 
> limited set of
> attributes that
> need to cross-reference object in other source but don't need 
> a foreign-key
> to ensure the integrity of the back-end database.
> 
> For example:
> 
> as-set:       AS-TEST
> descr:        TEST-CW-OBJECT
> members:      CW::AS3561, CW::AS-CWTRANSIT
> tech-c:       PL1-RIPE
> admin-c:      PL1-RIPE
> notify:       plu at cw.net
> mnt-by:       RIPE-NCC-MNT
> changed:      plu at cw.net 20011004
> source:       RIPE
> 
> So the "members:" attribute accepts CW::AS3561, 
> CW::AS-CWTRANSIT but it is
> upto
> the client-side tool ( RAToolSet comes into mind ) to deal with the
> infomation.
> 
> Later RIPE NCC can implement 
> tech-c: CW::PL1-CW
> mnt-by: CW::CW
> but this is more involved regarding the database integrity issue.
> 
> 
> 
> > While we think we can mimic this behaviour by overloading 
> > mnt-by: we would
> > perfer this is implemented as a new attribute and object, 
> so there is
> > no risk of side effects (eg mnt-by implies rights to change, 
> > and we don't
> > want to do that in this context)
> > 
> 
> I will think this is to address a different type of 
> cross-reference that
> imply the whole object is in other RR, is it ?
> 
> 
> > 
> > comments welcome!
> > 
> > cheers
> > 	-George
> > --
> > George Michaelson       |  APNIC
> > Email: ggm at apnic.net    |  PO Box 2131 Milton QLD 4064
> > Phone: +61 7 3367 0490  |  Australia
> >   Fax: +61 7 3367 0482  |  http://www.apnic.net
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Ping Lu
> Cable & Wireless USA
> Network Tools and Analysis Group
> W: +1-703-292-2359
> E: plu at cw.net
>