<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Dear TF members, <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Very sorry for the delay
with the recent batch of minutes. Here's the first set from
January. Two more still to come! <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Cheers</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Ant</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">***<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><br>
</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Draft
Minutes - COC TF: </span></b><b><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB" lang="EN-US">Eighth</span></b><b><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> Call <br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB" lang="EN-US">22</span></b><b><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> January
2021, 16:30-17:30 (UTC+1) </span></b><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Attendees:</span></b><span
style="font-family:Times;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Denesh
Bhabuta, Athina Fragkouli, Antony Gollan, Brian Nisbet, Leo
Vegoda</span><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-US">, Salam Yamout</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB" lang="EN-US">Summary: </span></b><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB" lang="EN-US">The TF discussed whether to include wording
in the CoC that it cannot be
used to appeal PDP decisions. While it agreed the two processes
were separate, it
decided this was not required. The TF also decided not to
include “defamation” in
the CoC, as this would depend on the specifics of the case and
might used against
others in bad faith. A line was added to clarify that only
“unacceptable behaviours”
could constitute a CoC violation. It was noted that while the
CoC would be
applied to other RIPE NCC events (that did not have a PC), there
might be
issues with the CoC Team not being present at the meeting to
handle reports or not
being familiar with the local culture. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">1. Minutes</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said they had two sets of minutes from
previous meetings. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Both were approved without comment.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">2. Agenda</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">There were no changes to the agenda.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">3. Actions</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><span
style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold" lang="EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times
New Roman""> </span></span></span><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">RIPE
NCC to review
text under Where this CoC Applies (final two paragraphs)</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Antony said he and Athina had looked at this
before the call, but they
weren’t quite there yet. He said they would have this done
before the next call.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo asked him to notify the group via the
mailing list once this was
done. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><span
style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">TF
members to think about whether
there should be a statement that the CoC cannot be used to
appeal consensus
decisions within the PDP, and also to review the Behaviour
section ahead of
next call.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Times"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">To recap, Leo said there could be a case
where a consensus call was made
in a WG and someone then complained that this outcome was the
result of something
that contravened the CoC. So there was a question about whether
this should go
through a WG process or the CoC process. He asked if there were
any thoughts on
this. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said the CoC was about people’s
conduct – while a consensus call
was about whether they agreed on A or B. She couldn’t see how
these could
conflict. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh agreed with Salam – they were
completely separate processes. He
thought it came down to the WG Chair. If the chair thought the
report was a
matter for the CoC, they could direct it there. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he thought they had already
agreed these were separate and he
personally didn’t think there should be any relation between the
two. The
question was whether they wanted to have a statement in the CoC
that this was
the case. He didn’t think they should have such a statement, as
it and might
seem strange. If this became an issue later, they could worry
about it then. If
someone felt they were being bullied as part of a PDP
discussion, that was a
CoC matter – and the PDP continued separately from this. It was
possible to
imagine cases where someone claimed they weren’t able to pursue
their proposal
due to a reaction from the community – but the solution was to
resolve this via
the CoC before going back to the PDP. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said he thought there was the potential
for someone to claim that a
WG Chair was biased against them for a CoC-related reason. At
that point,
because the WG Chair was the person being targeted by the
complaint, he thought
the only way this could be resolved would be to have the
decision about which
process to follow go to another group – probably the WG Chair
Collective. However,
he didn’t think they needed to put this into the CoC itself. If
they did want
to include this, it could go into the process document rather
than the CoC. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said the key point was that if someone
didn’t think the WG Chair’s
decision was correct, they had the right to appeal to the WG
Chairs Collective.
There could even be a CoC complaint and a PDP appeal on the same
issue simultaneously,
but they should be separate. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said they could say that the first half
of that action was done –
they’d thought about it and didn’t want to address it in the CoC
document itself.
The next part was to review the behaviour section. As most of
the TF had
reviewed this, they could mark this as done. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam asked if they should have something in
the CoC on “defamation” –
she had noticed this recently in a mailing list thread. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh said he thought things like slander,
libel and defamation were
already covered in the section on jurisdiction: once a legal
line was crossed, it
became a legal matter rather than something for the CoC to
address. He asked Athina
if that was correct. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said if someone defamed her via email,
she probably wouldn’t sue
them. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said she understood what Salam meant.
The RIPE NCC had seen two
cases of such an accusation recently. On the mailing lists,
someone had posted facts
and information in an analysis regarding how someone was
involved in a
fraudulent case. This person asked the RIPE NCC to remove the
content because
it was defamatory. It was very difficult to define whether this
was defamation
or if it was writing down known facts. At the same time, they
had also decided
to moderate someone because they were doing the same to others,
because this
was a violation of the CoC. She thought perhaps they should add
this to the CoC
and leave it to the CoC Team to make this evaluation depending
on the case. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said Athina had a good point. The RIPE
NCC had removed content
because it believed it was a violation of the CoC. Provided it
continued to do
this, then they wouldn’t need anything in the CoC. But if the
CoC Team would be
making this decision, then they would need to have something in
there. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said there were differing outcomes
depending on the specifics of
the case. If someone posted illegal content, then the RIPE NCC
had an obligation
to remove it, as otherwise they were liable. It might also be
that an outcome of
an evaluation by the CoC Team was that they had to exclude
someone from a mailing
list – but this would be a separate thing. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he was strongly against adding
this to the unacceptable
behaviours. He thought it became too easy for someone to say
that they were
being defamed. When it came to whether they should ask a group
of people to
decide whether something was defamatory or otherwise – he wasn’t
a fan of that.
He’d often had things said about him on the mailing lists that
would fall into
one category of unacceptable behaviour or the another. His
concerns were that
A) they were asking a team to make a legal judgement and B)
People could use
this against others in a malicious way. If claims were untrue,
then other legal
steps might need to be taken, but he thought this should be
separate from the
CoC. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said other unacceptable behaviours
that were in the CoC could also
be subject to a legal evaluation. An example was making threats,
which was also
illegal. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said some threats were quite literal –
“I’m going to kill you.” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina noted that she often said she was
going to kill people as a joke.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said he thought they could all agree
that email was quite a bad
medium for conveying tone and people could always misinterpret
things. He
thought they could mark this action as done and move on to
reviewing behaviours.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">4. Publication </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Behaviours</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said he wasn’t sure if they wanted
Unacceptable Behaviours to be an
exhaustive list.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>People
could always
find creative ways to be cruel and so he didn’t think they could
be
comprehensive – it had to be examples. He had taken the opening
paragraph from
the Python CoC, and hadn’t made any changes beyond updating
“Python community”
to “RIPE community.” He asked if there should be any further
changes to this. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group discussed whether they should use
“RIPE participants” vs “members
of the RIPE community.” There was support for the former, and
they agreed that this
should be used consistently throughout the document.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group also discussed whether they should
use wording along the lines
of “RIPE community members are…” vs “RIPE community members
should be…” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Looking at “Expected Behaviours”, Athina
noted that it was much easier
to enforce a list of “do not’s” as opposed to a bunch of “do’s”.
She had taken
the liberty of adding a line stating that the “do’s” were an
aspirational list –
making it clear that failing to display these behaviours was not
necessarily a
CoC violation.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said that failing to “Accept feedback
gracefully” might include telling
someone to “F-off”. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said it could also describe someone
who acted in a less offensive
way but nevertheless did not accept feedback gracefully. Looking
at the list
they had, she wondered if someone could make a complaint because
someone was
not “open”, for example.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group agreed to include some wording
along the lines of what Athina
had proposed to address this. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo asked if there were any comments on the
list of “Unacceptable behaviours”.
He noted that he had grouped these in alphabetical order to
avoid the perception
that some were more important than others. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam asked what happened if a person
clearly discriminated against someone,
but their actions were not something that was included on the
list. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group agreed that they could have some
wording to the effect of “this
is not an exhaustive list.” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said this was one of the biggest
sticking points in CoC debates
and created space for rules lawyering, but no one had yet found
a way around
this. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina noted the phrase “</span><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">This
includes but is not limited to:</span><span
style="font-family:Times;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">” and said the latter part
was redundant. However, she
could see the value in having this. If they did decide to keep
this, then they
should make it consistent throughout the document (as “but is
not limited to:”
was not in the scope, for example). </span><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian also found this redundant. However, he
recognised that he was a
native English speaker. He agreed that they should be consistent
whichever way
they went. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The group agreed to include both throughout
the document.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said this meant they were at the end of
Document 1, though there was
still the review of a couple of paragraphs that the RIPE NCC had
to do. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">5. AOB</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Antony said he and Athina had been looking
at the text about how this would
apply to groups such as ENOG or MENOG. The current text said
this would be up to
the relevant PCs to apply, and the RIPE NCC would apply it to
its own meetings.
This was fine. However, when they started thinking about things
like RIPE NCC Regional
Meetings, for which there was no PC, they started to wonder what
would happen
if a complaint was made via the CoC – especially if the meeting
was quite far
away from where the CoC Team was based. Did the complaint go to
the RIPE CoC Team,
or should the RIPE NCC have its own CoC Team for these
complaints? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said this document was about what the
CoC was and where it applied.
He suggested they think about the implementation later. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina agreed with Leo’s comment. However,
one issue was that the draft
document touched on the implementation a little bit. In the
rationale, the
third goal talked about a transparent framework for report
handling. So this
was not entirely separate. When they talked about the RIPE
Meetings, they had
the RIPE CoC Team. When they talked about ENOG, SEE or MENOG
meetings, they would
work this out with the relevant PC, which might create its own
CoC Team. But if
it was a RIPE NCC Regional Meeting, did they send reports via
the RIPE CoC
Team, or was this too far away and the team wouldn’t feel
comfortable making a
determination in these cases?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he didn’t think it would be
unfair to the future CoC Team to ask
it to fill this role in cases where the RIPE NCC organised an
event for the RIPE
community and there wasn’t a relevant body (PC, RIPE NCC
Executive Board) to form
a CoC Team. Perhaps this might come with the understanding that
the process was
a little slower than usual.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam asked if this meant the same rules
wouldn’t apply in all regions. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said this was about how reports were
handled rather than the
rules. When it came to RIPE Meetings, they would have the RIPE
CoC Team. When it
came to MENOG or ENOG Meetings, they might like to have their
own team – or perhaps
would feel comfortable using the RIPE CoC Team for that. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said she thought each community should
have a few local members
who underwent the same training as the RIPE CoC Team.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Antony said the example he was thinking of
was something like “RIPE NCC
Regional Meeting: Kazakhstan” – which would be a RIPE NCC run
event that didn’t
have any interaction with a local PC.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said it was something they might need
input on from the community
– whether it was appropriate or they felt comfortable having the
CoC Team performing
such evaluations. And also, whether these local communities felt
comfortable
having their reports evaluated by a group that was not present
at the meeting,
and potentially was not familiar with their culture. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said this could be something they
discussed with the community. The
TF might say they were very happy with the other sections, but
this part needed
more input. This might be preferable to investing a lot of
effort on this
aspect – only for it to later change based on feedback. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he would prefer they had someone
at these events who could handle
reports over excluding these communities from the CoC. <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said they were out of time and proposed
an action on the RIPE NCC. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: RIPE NCC to clean up the draft CoC
and circulate it on the list
(perhaps via a separate Google doc).</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo also noted that the RIPE Chair Team was
asking whether the chat at a
RIPE Meeting should be preserved, or whether it should be
ephemeral and disappear.
This might have implications for the CoC Team’s work. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina suggested they consider whether they
should remove the bullet
point on report handling from the rationale of the CoC, as this
was not addressed
in the document.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said that by getting the CoC document
finished, they had passed
their first milestone. He thanked the TF members for their work
so far. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Actions</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: RIPE NCC to review text about
where the CoC aplied at the
fringes of the formal RIPE community and moving into
associated communities</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: RIPE NCC to clean up the draft CoC
and circulate it on the list
(perhaps via a separate Google doc).</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">End of meeting.</span></p>
<p>
<style>@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;
mso-font-charset:2;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:0 268435456 0 0 -2147483648 0;}@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:roman;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;}@font-face
{font-family:Times;
panose-1:0 0 5 0 0 0 0 2 0 0;
mso-font-alt:Times;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-536870145 1342185562 0 0 415 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-unhide:no;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0cm;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
mso-style-unhide:no;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
mso-add-space:auto;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}p.MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst, li.MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst, div.MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst
{mso-style-priority:34;
mso-style-unhide:no;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-type:export-only;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
mso-add-space:auto;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}p.MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle, li.MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle, div.MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle
{mso-style-priority:34;
mso-style-unhide:no;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-type:export-only;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
mso-add-space:auto;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}p.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, li.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, div.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast
{mso-style-priority:34;
mso-style-unhide:no;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-type:export-only;
margin-top:0cm;
margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:0cm;
margin-left:36.0pt;
mso-add-space:auto;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-default-props:yes;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}</style></p>
</body>
</html>