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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB">Dear TF members, </span></span><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB"><br>
</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB">Here are the draft minutes from our last call.
Corrections welcome. <br>
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB">Cheers</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB">Ant<br>
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB">***<br>
</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB">Draft Minutes - Code of Conduct TF: </span></b><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB" lang="EN-US">Fourth</span></b><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> Call
<br>
</span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-US">18</span></b><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB"> November, 1</span></b><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB" lang="EN-US">7</span></b><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">:30-1</span></b><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"
lang="EN-US">8</span></b><b
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-fareast-language:
EN-GB">:30 (UTC+1)</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span
style="font-family:Times">Present: <br>
</span></b><span style="font-family:Times">Denesh Bhabuta, </span><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina
Fragkouli, </span><span style="font-family:Times">Antony
Gollan, Brian Nisbet, Leo Vegoda</span><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">,
Salam Yamout</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Summary: </span></b><span
style="font-family:Times;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">The TF discussed concerns
around the recent GM vote to
apply the RIPE community’s CoC to Executive Board elections. It
was noted that jurisdictions
(in terms of which country a RIPE Meeting was held in) would
have little
bearing on the CoC, as this was a private agreement between two
parties. The
group discussed legal requirements around record-keeping and
personal data. It
was noted that much of this would depend on the process that was
eventually
developed (e.g. personal data would need to be kept at least
until the expiry
of any appeal period, and potentially longer if a
“three-strikes” approach is
used). The TF agreed to produce some initial text on
record-keeping that could
be reviewed by the RIPE NCC. The group noted that it had fallen
behind its ambitious
time frame, but agreed that it was better to wait until it had
something substantial
to say before sending another message to the community (though
the TF may share
at least a brief update before the end of the year). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Times"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Minutes</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The draft minutes from the previous call
were approved without changes. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Agenda</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">There were no changes to the agenda. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Actions
from last
meeting</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The following actions had been completed: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><b><span style="font-family:Times;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Include a summary at the
start of future minutes.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><b><span style="font-family:Times;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">RIPE NCC to make mailing
list archives public.</span></b></p>
<p
style="margin-top:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times
New Roman""> </span></span></span><b>TF
chair to respond to request to participate and let them know
that while the ML
won’t be opened to non-TF members, they can access the archives
and are invited
to send a mail to the list if they would like to make a
contribution. </b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said she could provide input on the
next action: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB;mso-bidi-font-weight:bold"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times
New Roman"">
</span></span></span><b><span style="font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Athina to
provide input on the decision by the RIPE NCC GM to reference
the CoC in
relation to potential EB candidates, as well as input on what
kind of records a
future CoC Team would need to keep (and for how long).</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said this requirement aimed to
exclude people from standing as
candidates in board elections if they misbehaved. The RIPE NCC
Executive Board
Election TF hadn’t wanted to create something new and had
thought the existing
CoC was simple and seemed good enough for their purposes.
However, the TF had also
recommended that the board create a separate CoC that was based
on the community’s
one. Similarly, when it came to assessing violations, the TF
didn’t want to
reinvent the wheel, and thought the existing Trusted Contacts
could fill this role.
The end result would involve a new/separate document which was
based on the RIPE
community’s CoC and that used the existing Trusted Contacts to
make
determinations. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">She said the question was then whether the
CoC-TF would produce a new
document and whether the board would prefer that to the existing
one. This
might be the case, but it would be the board’s decision. She
didn’t think it
was something that the CoC-TF needed to consider when developing
their
document. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said if this was how it worked (in
terms of the board making this
decision), then that was fine with him. However, he was still
concerned about the
process/enforcement. There was only one Trusted Contact
currently who was not a
RIPE NCC staff member. He was also concerned that a potential
future CoC Team
would be drawn into this role, which was quite a different task.
So, while
Athina had addressed one of his concerns, another remained. <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh asked if this CoC for board
candidates would only apply “during”
the election period or if it would also consider prior
behaviour. If it determined
who could stand in elections, then he would be quite concerned,
as there were
all sorts of due diligence considerations. He was fine with
having requirements
during the election process itself. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said it would be limited to who could
stand as board candidates in
elections. A nominee only became a candidate once they had five
people
supporting them; so they weren’t talking about who could be
nominated. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said his understanding was that the
Trusted Contacts/future CoC Team
would essentially be asked to decide if a nominee was qualified
to become a
candidate. He asked if there was the potential for conflicts of
interest. He asked
if it would be the CoC Team that responded, or if there would be
an official
record keeper (potentially the RIPE NCC) that would consider
past behaviour. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said the RIPE NCC ran this process –
it accepted nominations (publicly
archived) and decided who could be a candidate. According to the
new process adopted
by the GM, nominees would have to provide ID and sign a
statement that they would
adhere to a CoC (as defined by the board) and had not committed
any fraud.
After doing this, they became qualified as candidates. If there
were complaints
after this point, that was where the Trusted Contacts would need
to conduct an
evaluation. She expected these complaints would come directly to
the RIPE NCC,
or otherwise to a public mailing list. If they received a
complaint, she
assumed the RIPE NCC would forward this to the Trusted Contacts
to make an
evaluation. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said it sounded like what they were
doing as a TF was completely separate
from the board elections. Their focus was on the RIPE community
– it was up to
the board to decide whether what they produced was also helpful
for them. What
Athina described sounded like any other CoC complaint and could
be handled in the
same way. This meant the CoC Team would be the place to take any
issue
affecting the RIPE community – whether this involved a potential
board candidate
or a regular community member. She thought they should do their
job and let the
board decide if this was good enough, or if the board needed to
design a
separate process for their elections. But this led to questions
about what the
CoC Team did with complaints – whether they had to store them to
see if someone
was repeatedly violating the CoC. <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said his concern was that they might
put their process in place
and the board would simply agree to use this for their
elections. This might lead
to a different (or reduced) pool of volunteers for the CoC Team.
Some people
might not want to get involved in the sorts of issues
surrounding board
elections. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam asked if they needed to decide whether
that RIPE NCC elections were
out of scope from the beginning. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian thought they should decide whether the
board should be allowed to
simply take the RIPE community’s CoC. His concern was that this
would be massive
scope creep and it was not up to the board to decide this. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said she was thinking that a violation
of the CoC was the same in
either case – bad behaviour was bad behaviour. The team would
only decide
whether something was a violation – it wouldn’t decide on the
actual consequences.
If someone’s actions meant they were unable to stand in the
board elections,
that was not the business of the CoC Team.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh said the CoC would be about
complaints received during a
particular process (e.g. during a RIPE Meeting or on a mailing
list). Action
would be taken at that time, potentially starting an
investigation. It seemed
to him that this could also be applied retroactively – people
might complain
based on something that had happened in the past. He thought
they needed to be
careful here, and in that way, he partly agreed with both Brian
and Salam’s
points. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said this might need to be clarified
in the process the board
would come up with – to show how it would be implemented. She
added that the
work of the Trusted Contacts had two stages – the first was to
evaluate whether
there was a violation – the second was to determine an
appropriate outcome. In the
context of the RIPE community, the Trusted Contacts could do
both; they might
decide to remove someone from a mailing list, for example. In
the case of board
elections, they would only be expected to determine whether a
violation had occurred,
as there was only one outcome if that was the case. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian asked if determining someone couldn’t
be a candidate could expose
the CoC Team to risks. He saw a big difference between saying
someone couldn’t attend
a RIPE Meeting vs saying they were not eligible to stand in
board elections. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said there could be liability issues,
but these were the same as
in other cases (e.g. arbitration rulings) There were ways to
mitigate this risk.
There might be an indemnification clause, or they might find
liability
insurance. This was something she could discuss internally if
the TF felt it would
be necessary. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo summarised his understanding: there
would not be a review by the CoC
Team/Trusted Contacts of past actions in the context of board
elections. So,
there was no need to keep records here, as it was only for that
brief period
during the elections. However, it would impact who would be
called on to
adjudicate these cases – as they might have a RIPE NCC staff
member or a board
member on the CoC Team. He didn’t think this was something for
them to solve now,
but it was something that the RIPE NCC could look at and come up
with a plan
that didn’t discourage people from joining the CoC Team if they
were reluctant
to assume additional responsibilities. <span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said an alternative was to say that
they were a community TF and
didn’t want to be dragged into RIPE NCC issues. They already had
the issue of having
only one community member who was currently the sole arbiter for
deciding this.
He thought this was overreach and it was foolish of the board
and membership to
agree to this without properly considering the implications. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina clarified that there was no mention
of this process in the
Articles of Association. In Section 6 of the Elections TF, they
talked about Trusted
Contacts and in parenthesis said this shouldn’t include RIPE NCC
staff and potentially
the RIPE Chair. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Questions</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said in the interests of time, he would
remove the “Structure” item
from the agenda, as this would require some discussion. He asked
that they instead
focus on the “Questions” element. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Jurisdiction – can process remain the same
between different meeting
jurisdictions?</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said countries obviously had their
own restrictions and the
community couldn’t violate rule of law in other countries. But
you could also
have agreements between private individuals, and these were none
of these countries’
business (provided they didn’t violate the laws/values of these
countries). If
they said that, for a RIPE Meeting, all participants would have
to enter into
an agreement with the RIPE NCC (as the organiser), and the CoC
was part of this
agreement, then participants would be bound by the CoC. If they
violated this,
the RIPE NCC would have the right to ask them to leave.
Ultimately, they were
talking about a private agreement, and the country the meeting
was being held
in didn’t play a big role here. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Record keeping</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said the RIPE NCC had said in its past
impact analysis that it
wanted to manage record keeping. Looking at other CoCs they had
looked at, it
was not simply records of outcomes, but also reports,
investigations, working
documents, and communications. He asked if the RIPE NCC had any
ideas about
what it would want to do here. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said when considering personal data,
they needed a legal basis
for collecting it. She thought their legal basis (from the law)
would be
“public interest”. The question was how long they could hold
this data. The
answer would be for as long as appropriate, according to
purpose. She imagined
that the CoC Team would gather data during its investigations.
The question was
whether this data should be deleted once the investigation was
concluded.
However, if there was an appeal process, then this data would
need to be held at
least for as long as this appeal process. Another question was
whether there
would be a “three-strike” approach; if-so, they would need to
keep information
about past cases. On the other hand, if each case was taken on
its merits and each
report started with a clean slate, then they would not be able
to keep this data
(or at least it would have to be anonymised). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said she was curious how this was done
in other communities and
whether they were making this overly complicated. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said many of the events he was
involved in were bad at keeping
records – especially in terms of identifying patterns of
behaviour (which was the
primary reason to keep reports in his view). </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Athina said in that case, they would need to
make a case and build a
story to support their argument that they would keep this
information in the
public interest. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said his understanding of the RIPE NCC’s
impact analysis was that it
would need to have some kind of database, at least of decisions,
so it could properly
implement them. If someone was not able to attend the next three
RIPE Meetings
or was not able to post to mailing lists for six months – then
the RIPE NCC
would need to have access to this information so it could track
whether it was
implemented and when it would need to expire. What Brian had
said in terms of behavioural
trends – if they had four reports about a person that were not
actionable but
showed a trend – this was something they would also need to
think through as a
group. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said these were some of the more
complicated questions he had seen
around CoCs. If someone was consistently skirting the line, then
it was easy
for people to forget. People also often overlooked the fact that
if someone was
constantly skirting the line, perhaps it indicated wider issues.
So, this
seemed like a reason to keep this information. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo suggested they could steal elements from
other communities (properly
attributed) and try to fit this into something for Athina to
review. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian noted that the RIPE NCC as secretariat
and meeting host had
certain things it needed to cover. Due to the risk-averse nature
of the RIPE
NCC, they might find themselves in a situation that was more
formal than what a
smaller community might be able to get away with. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam said there was the question of where
they stopped and where the RIPE
NCC began. Perhaps their job as a TF was just to give a decision
– they could delete
data that was used to create a decision after a certain point
(i.e. appeal) and
let the RIPE NCC handle this. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Regarding actions, Leo said he’d put
together something around the
structure of the document. He would appreciate if the TF could
start editing
this or making comments. Regarding their timeline, they had
hoped to get something
out by November, which was a little ambitious. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: TF members to review document and
provide comments on structure</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Leo to put together initial text
regarding record-keeping. </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Communication</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said that, as the work of the TF hadn’t
progressed as quickly as
they had planned, perhaps they might consider whether further
communication
with the community was needed. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Antony said that as the RIPE Meeting was
behind them, perhaps they should
wait until they had something more specific to say. It would be
good to share some
general directions or open questions with the community in
advance of
publishing an updated draft, to get initial feedback and avoid
any surprises. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Salam asked if they should share the
structure once they had it. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Antony said potentially, otherwise they
might share some leading
questions. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian said he didn’t think they needed to
send an update in November. Everyone
understood that timelines were often a little blurry for TFs and
he would
prefer they wait until they had something more substantial to
say. The real
deadline for them would be the next RIPE Meeting. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Denesh suggested a short and very quick
update before the end of the
year. Perhaps they could simply note that they were meeting
every two weeks. That
way, the community would see that work was happening and
progress was being
made.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said that was good. He added that he and
Denesh would soon meet with
the RIPE Chair Team to give them an update – they seemed to want
to maintain regular
contact with the TFs to see how they were going.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Brian suggested that Leo gather the RIPE
Chair Team’s thoughts on the issue
of the RIPE CoC being applied to RIPE NCC Executive Board
elections. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Leo said he would do that. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Leo to ask for RIPE Chair Team’s
perspective on CoC/RIPE NCC
board elections. </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Review
of actions
from meeting</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: TF members to review document and
provide comments on structure</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Leo to put together initial text
regarding record-keeping. </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">Action: Leo to ask for RIPE Chair Team’s
perspective on CoC/RIPE NCC
board elections. </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">(From previous call): RIPE NCC to request
statistical information from
trusted contacts. </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">7.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span></b><b><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">AOB</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">It was confirmed that the next TF call would
take place according to the
regular Friday schedule. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Times;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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mso-default-props:yes;
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div.WordSection1
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ol
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ul
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p
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p.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, li.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, div.MsoListParagraphCxSpLast
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{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-default-props:yes;
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div.WordSection1
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ol
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ul
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