[coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document

Hi,

I agree with Brian's analysis.

The core issue is that the CoC Team is not capable of controlling
information shared by people outside the CoC Team. Members of the Team
can and must exercise discretion but people identified in the report,
witnesses etc... might not exercise discretion.

As the intention behind this statement was not well understood, we
obviously need to add some clarity to the text. I'll coordinate with
the RIPE NCC to make sure we improve that section as we finalise the
new draft and get it ready for publication.

I am not on Telegram and cannot respond to that channel. But if anyone
who is can share a link to this message in the public mail archive
then that would be super.

Thanks,

Leo

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 01:55, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> wrote:
>
> 🙁
>
> Ok, I think that we can tighten up that line. My very hazy recollection is that it's meant to acknowledge humanity etc. but I do understand that concern people have. I mean, it could be replaced by "Members of the CoC Team are required to exercise discretion when assessing reports. Information should only be shared outside the group when absolutely necessary for the proper assessment of the report."
>
> It's still vague, but we can't list every single thing. Because if X does something in corridor Y then maybe X and Y need to be mentioned to find out more.
>
> I have just read a situation where an event passed on an unredacted report (including the reporters name) to the subject of the report, and wow, that is utterly wrong, of course.
>
> Anyway, there's a suggestion. I'm glad some people are discussing it in the Telegram chat, but given that seems to be a basically unmoderated informal space, they've also got to engage with us at some point. (I say informal because in the 1 minute I browsed it this morning I saw at least one message that contained content that should have been called out and was, instead, liked by one of the admins...
>
> Brian
>
> Brian Nisbet (he/him)
>
> Service Operations Manager
>
> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
>
> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>
> +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
>
> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>
> ________________________________
> From: coc-tf <coc-tf-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of Mirjam Kuehne <mir at zu-hause.nl>
> Sent: Friday 3 February 2023 09:35
> To: Leo Vegoda <leo at vegoda.org>
> Cc: coc-tf at ripe.net <coc-tf at ripe.net>
> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
>
> CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
> Hi again,
>
> This discussion is also taking place on Telegram (see attached). I
> believe some of you are on that channel?
>
> On one hand some people may be misreading the sentence as it is quoted
> as "try their best" where it actually says "will do their best".
>
> On the other hand, people are suggesting to use a stronger word such as
> MUST. And possibly "confidential" instead of "discreet".
>
> Regards,
> Mirjam
>
>
>
>
> On 03/02/2023 09:59, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
> >
> > Hi Leo, Hi all,
> >
> > I just received this comment on LinkedIn (after publishing my latest
> > report on RIPE Labs which contained a short section on the progress of
> > the Code of Conduct Task Force):
> >
> > "Thank you for sharing. However, how can the CoC be trusted or the
> > people who are part of it, when in the rules it is clearly stated
> > that: “members of the CoC team will do their best to be discreet”!!!
> > This is extremely worrying. The choice of words imply that there is
> > room for not being discreet and acting in the best interest of the
> > people who raise concerns. How can anyone trust this?"
> >
> > This is in reference to the last sentence in section 3. Report is
> > Assessed.
> >
> > Is this something you could clarify - in the document and/or directly
> > to the person on LinkedIn?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Mirjam
> >
> > On 02/02/2023 15:24, Leo Vegoda wrote:
> >> It looks like we just have the two clarifications to incorporate into
> >> this draft. When the RIPE NCC has done that, we can publish it to the
> >> community.
> >>
> >> The clarifications are:
> >>
> >> 1) In the section on submitting the report, use language that allows
> >> for reports to be submitted using any reasonable communication method.
> >> The example given was a video conference. The key outcome should be a
> >> clear report that can be acknowledged and acted on.
> >>
> >> 2) In the section on appeals, use clearer language to describe an
> >> appeal to the RIPE Chair on the broader CoC Team's review of the
> >> initial team's decision.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Leo
> >>
> >> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:25, Brian Nisbet<brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>  wrote:
> >>> Yes, thank you, Kjerstin!
> >>>
> >>> I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation.
> >>>
> >>> Overall I'm very happy.
> >>>
> >>> Brian
> >>>
> >>> Brian Nisbet (he/him)
> >>>
> >>> Service Operations Manager
> >>>
> >>> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
> >>>
> >>> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
> >>>
> >>> +35316609040brian.nisbet at heanet.ie  www.heanet.ie
> >>>
> >>> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: coc-tf<coc-tf-bounces at ripe.net>  on behalf of Leo Vegoda<leo at vegoda.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32
> >>> To: Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek at ripe.net>
> >>> Cc:coc-tf at ripe.net  <coc-tf at ripe.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
> >>>
> >>> CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin!
> >>>
> >>> TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document
> >>> or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we
> >>> should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the
> >>> community and ask for comments.
> >>>
> >>> Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>>
> >>> Leo
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek at ripe.net>  wrote:
> >>>> Dear TF members,
> >>>>
> >>>> Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication:
> >>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFiq_w/edit
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Kjerstin
> >>>> --
> >>>> coc-tf mailing list
> >>>> coc-tf at ripe.net
> >>>> https://mailman.ripe.net/
> >>> --
> >>> coc-tf mailing list
> >>> coc-tf at ripe.net
> >>> https://mailman.ripe.net/
> >> --
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> >