Re: [anti-spam-wg] Any suggestions about how to deal with non co-operative ISP's and RIR's ?

[oca@localhost]

I think we should keep my opinion this issue out of this tread...

But in general I go for the lowest common denominator .. ie. a mail should 
be concidered legal for the whole path from the issuer to the receiver.

But let's keep this tread "on-track" ....

Ole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jørgen Hovland" jorgen@localhost
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [anti-spam-wg] Any suggestions about how to deal with non 
co-operative ISP's and RIR's ?


> I do believe that only if every responsible organisation on the net
cooperate on hacking, spam and other abuse issues - we will be able to do
anything about - otherwise ....


And by spam you mean what you decide is spam, or do you mean that the spam 
is illegal by law in the country of the ISP and/or the destination country?
Just curious..

Cheers,
j


-----Original Message-----

From: anti-spam-wg-admin@localhost [

] On

Behalf Of oca@localhost
Sent: 3. april 2007 10:06
Subject: Re: [anti-spam-wg] Any suggestions about how to deal with non 
co-operative ISP's and RIR's ?

Blocking the ISP, in one or another way, is ofcourse a way to deal with spam
from a given ISP ...

But this is only a short-term ( selfish ) solution and dosn't solve the root
for my frustrations - namely that the ISP and the RIR dosn't seem willing to
cooperate...

Besides this - technically - blocking isn't possible for me ... I'm sitting
behind a mail relay belonging to my ISP..

Anyway - I appreciate that I'm not the only one feeling p... off by this
matter.

I do believe that only if every responsible organisation on the net
cooperate on hacking, spam and other abuse issues - we will be able to do
anything about - otherwise ....

Ole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "peter h" peter@localhost
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: [anti-spam-wg] Any suggestions about how to deal with non
co-operative ISP's and RIR's ?


On Monday 02 April 2007 08.50, oca@localhost wrote:
> Any suggestions about how to deal with non co-operative ISP's and RIR's ?
>
> When I receive a spam mail, I normally send a spam repport to the "abuse
> mail account" of the ISP being responsible for the IP address using the
> whois databases of the RIR's.
>
> Normally this works very fine ... or rather ... I'm often able to deliver
> the repport somewhere without any problems.
>
> But in some cases the given account dosn't exist or is hidden behind a
> spamfilter..
>
> In these cases I have tried to contact the RIR of the ISP but with very
> different outcome ...
>
> Some RIR's consider this as a problem they can deal with and some dosn't
> !!!
>
> Last week I received a third spam mail from an ip address belonging to
> charter.net...
>
> According to the whois of arin, and to the homepage of the ISP, I should
> repport abuse to abuse@localhost...
>
> This I have tried several times getting an "unable to deliver" repport
> every
> time ...
>
> Trying to raise this as an issue for ARIN gives this repply:
>
> > ARIN is an IP registry whose primary function is the registration and
> > distribution of IP number resources (IP addresses and Autonomous System
> > Numbers) in North America.
> >
> > IP number resource registration information can be found in the
> > public ARIN WHOIS database found at:
> >
> >  http://www.arin.net/whois/
> >
> > Please understand that ARIN does not operate any of the networks
> > contained
> > in the WHOIS database nor is ARIN responsible for supplying and
> > maintaining the registration data in the WHOIS database.  That
> > responsibility lies soley with the registrant of the data.
>
> How do we fight spam, and other kind of abuse, as long as some of the
> ISP's
> and the RIR's has this kind of attitudes ?
>
> Ole
The solution is - block them. Either subscribe on a blocklist that fills the
need or block the offending ISP's yourself. IP ranges is easily
available by "whois"

The downside is that _if_ someone is within that ISP's net they are
not able to mail you, but a proper "bounce-message" ( "Use gmail or any
other
serious mailprovider" ) or punch a hole in you block when needed.

The only real pressure that can be applied to unserious ISP is to
threat their income. Make their customers complain and eventually
abandom them.

--
       Peter Håkanson

       There's never money to do it right, but always money to do it
       again ... and again ... and again ... and again.
       ( Det är billigare att göra rätt. Det är dyrt att laga fel. )