<html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style> </head> <body dir="ltr"> <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> It has been a while that I was in LEA, but I remember this same complaint from the 00s. A LEA-RIPE NCC working group was started circa 2008 and that led to a lot better understanding of each others competences and information that could be shared. Like myself, all these people are now in other positions. So, without me knowing what is asked by whom, a renewed effort could be the answer. @Michele @Serge. Yes, at times I hear exasperation from law makers as well. The fact that this very WG is discussing its future remit, if there is one at all, may well be one of the causes of this exasperation. Self-regulation does mean just that. It should not equate inactivity. The alternative is regulation. In more and more stages of society in general, this is becoming the case. The Internet already is and will not be an exception. There's still a chance to self-regulate.</div> <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div> <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Kind regards,</div> <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div> <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Wout de Natris</div> <div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div> <div id="Signature"> <div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - De Natris Consult Kamerlingh Onnesstraat 43 Tel: +31 648388813 2014 EK Haarlem Skype: wout.de.natris <a href="mailto:denatrisconsult@hotmail.nl">denatrisconsult@hotmail.nl</a> http://www.denatrisconsult.nl Blog http://woutdenatris.wordpress.com </div> </div> <div id="appendonsend"></div> <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1"> <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr">From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 12:07 PM To: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 146, Issue 10 <div> </div> </div> <div class="BodyFragment"> <div class="PlainText">Send anti-abuse-wg mailing list submissions to anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net You can reach the person managing the list at anti-abuse-wg-owner@ripe.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of anti-abuse-wg digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: LEA Transparency Report 2023 (Michele Neylon - Blacknight) 2. Re: LEA Transparency Report 2023 (Michele Neylon - Blacknight) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:03:36 +0000 From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> To: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com>, Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>, "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023 Message-ID: <DB8PR09MB3324C8ED9C46B8F36AE42BC7CD062@DB8PR09MB3324.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Suresh The devil is in the details?. Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a> <a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a> Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 at 10:38 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>, anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023 [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. LEA especially the computer crime part of LEA has been dealing with RIRs for some decades now? The specifics of this case would be interesting. --srs ________________________________ From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 3:02:51 PM To: Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023 Serge The report speaks about French LEA asking RIPE for data that RIPE does not have. You then go off on some complete tangent about governments not being satisfied with tech companies. How are the two related? What purpose does asking RIPE (or anyone else) for data they simply do not have serve? A much more rational explanation is that LEA simply do not understand what data RIPE (or others) have and that maybe the solution is to educate them. I have heard from some in LEA that the amount of engagement from RIPE, ICANN etc., in the past couple of years has reduced, though that?s purely anecdotal. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a> <a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a> Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <<a href="/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/attachments/20240410/29bc8b06/attachment-0001.html">/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/attachments/20240410/29bc8b06/attachment-0001.html</a>> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:07:16 +0000 From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> To: Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org>, "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023 Message-ID: <DB8PR09MB33249BD5FBF9723B3183CB33CD062@DB8PR09MB3324.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Serge As I said, it?s an odd attempt at making a point, if that?s what it is. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a> <a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a> Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: Serge Droz <serge.droz@first.org> Date: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 at 10:38 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] LEA Transparency Report 2023 [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hi Michele As I said: They may make a point. Maybe they don't understand what RIPS dies. But that's an assumption, and the tech community tends to underrate authorities, so don't count on it. Best Serge On 10.04.24 11:32, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: > Serge > > The report speaks about French LEA asking RIPE for data that RIPE does > not have. > > You then go off on some complete tangent about governments not being > satisfied with tech companies. > > How are the two related? > > What purpose does asking RIPE (or anyone else) for data they simply do > not have serve? > > A much more rational explanation is that LEA simply do not understand > what data RIPE (or others) have and that maybe the solution is to > educate them. > > I have heard from some in LEA that the amount of engagement from RIPE, > ICANN etc., in the past couple of years has reduced, though that?s > purely anecdotal. > > Regards > > Michele > > -- > > Mr Michele Neylon > > Blacknight Solutions > > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > > <a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a> <<a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a>> > > <a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a> <<a href="https://blacknight.blog/">https://blacknight.blog/</a>> > > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > > Personal blog: <a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a> <<a href="https://michele.blog/">https://michele.blog/</a>> > > Some thoughts: <a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a> <<a href="https://ceo.hosting/">https://ceo.hosting/</a>> > > ------------------------------- > > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business > Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not > expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. > -- Dr. Serge Droz Member, FIRST Board of Directors <a href="https://www.first.org">https://www.first.org</a> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <<a href="/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/attachments/20240410/1cba2462/attachment.html">/ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/attachments/20240410/1cba2462/attachment.html</a>> ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: <a href="https://mailman.ripe.net/">https://mailman.ripe.net/</a> ------------------------------ End of anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 146, Issue 10 ********************************************** </div> </div> </body> </html>