<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Two quick points here:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The money collected by Data Protection Agency fines aren’t for the ones claiming, but for the respective governments.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If the abuse country don’t have an agreement with the EU to collect that fine, the EU can seize it later on, at any time, when there is a payment from the EU to that company or person, depending on the case.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Meanwhile, this company, which has been fined, will not be able to continue business with EU companies.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>So even if procmail saves time, I feel more responsible, as citizen, to make sure that the law that protects me, is called upon when/if it comes the time for it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Further to that, at least in Spain, I guess is the same in other countries, if you receive spam or any other abuse towards your network, you have law recognized compensation for the damages. Of course this is not millions of euros, even not a few thousands, however a collective claim against a spammer, which my turn the cost for the spammer in something really bad for his/her pocket.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Last, but not least, a quick google search shows that there is an agreement for GDPR related issues among the EU and Israel, and Israel has adapted to their equivalent law, which is understandable, because there is a lot of business among those region.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 12/5/20 21:49, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Sabri Berisha" <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:sabri@cluecentral.net">sabri@cluecentral.net</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>----- On May 12, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>On Tue, May 12, 2020, 10:13 PM Sabri <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>First of all, there is the requirement for the non-EU company to <strong><i><span style='font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>intentionally</span></i></strong> provide goods or services to the EU. That can be found in article 3(2)a.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Well, virtually that's exactly our case: an employee of an Israeli company promotes their services (in multiple local EU languages such as Czech language) through an intentional mailing.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Yes, you are absolutely correct in that.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Second, and most important, for a law to protect it must be enforceable. For a law to be enforceable, a court must be able to issue a judgement, and that judgement must be executable.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black'>Still fine: AFAIK Israeli companies with a remote offering directed to the EU citizens are subject to extraterritorial reaches. At least, I've seen some of those working in GDPR compliance. What do I miss here?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>This is the part where I disagree. According to EU law, they are subject to what's called "universal jurisdiction", but unless there are treaties in place, or the local Israeli courts are willing to recognize foreign judgements, that EU law is nothing but a useless piece of paper. The EU cannot enforce their laws in a different country without the local courts granting jurisdiction. And that, in turn, means that EU laws cannot be applied to those outside of its reach.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>It would be different if said entity (whether that's a person or business) had any assets in the EU. In that case they could be seized upon a monetary judgement. Which is the case with Google, Facebook etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>In more simpler terms: EU courts can award you 100 million euros, but without a way to collect it you're still poor.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Hence my recommendation to just plonk the guy into oblivion instead of pursuing a theoretical and practically impossible avenue (GDPR enforcement).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Just procmail the guy's emails, and vote for the other candidates. Saves you a lot of headaches :)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Sabri<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><br>**********************************************<br> IPv4 is over<br> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br> http://www.theipv6company.com<br> The IPv6 Company<br> <br> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. 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