<html><head><style id="axi-htmleditor-style" type="text/css">p { margin: 0px; }</style></head><body dir="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Source Sans Pro", sans-serif; background-image: none; background-repeat: repeat; background-attachment: fixed;">Thanks Jordi,<div><br></div><div>You cannot force LIR's to act in the fashion below (that is wishful thinking). However you can make transparant, how abuse desks deal with complaints.</div><div><br></div><div>I would therefore suggest the following:</div><div><br></div><div>Keep the current validation procedure, add a date to the abuse-whois, when the address was last sucessfully checked. </div><div>Give LIR's the options to add an acceptable abuse format for automated processing to the whois.</div><div><br></div><div>By this you <span style="white-space:pre"> </span>- make visible the adres works;</div><div><span style="white-space:pre"> </span>- make the abuse whois act as a source for how responsible organisations deal with abuse.</div><div><br></div><div>I could image there would be the one or more of the following options:</div><div>{blank} = not filled in by LIR</div><div>{manual} = LIR handles abuse in a manual fashion</div><div>{XARF} = accepts Xarf/RFC5965 form and handles them automatically<br><div class="x-axi-signature">{other specification, maybe with URL}</div><div class="x-axi-signature">{api with url}</div><div class="x-axi-signature">{'whatever'}</div><div class="x-axi-signature"><br></div><div class="x-axi-signature">This would be more valuable for the whole global abuse handling process than the burdensome time waster that is now proposed.</div><div class="x-axi-signature"><br><div class="x-axi-signature" style="; font-size: 10pt; font-family: " source="" sans="" pro",="" sans-serif;"="">-- <div>IDGARA | Alex de Joode | +31651108221</div></div></div><br>On Sat, 18-05-2019 13h 31min, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin-left: 10px; padding-left: 10px; border-left: 1px solid #ccc;"><div style="null; null;"><meta http="http" equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style id="axi-htmleditor-style"></style><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Alex,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The intent of this policy is to ensure that the validation process is useful, and that means ensuring that the inbox is working, real (not from somebody else), monitored for abuse reports (automatically is ok if it really works, but there must be a way for human participation), and that those that send abuse reports don’t need to use a different form for every possible LIR in the world, which is not viable (unless there is a common standard for that – work in parallel but may take years).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">A responsible organization will deal with abuse reports, and having a working abuse-c is part of it, otherwise people can’t report abuse cases. If abuse cases are ignored you escalate to the NCC or courts, or whatever, that’s another layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><br>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">El 16/5/19 22:42, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Alex de Joode" <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:alex@idgara.nl">alex@idgara.nl</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Ola,</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">It's unclear to me what you are trying to accomplish with this policy:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ensure ripe members have a working (as in receiving mail) abuse email address;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ensure ripe members have a working abuse email address and process incoming mails;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ensure ripe members have a working abuse email address and read it;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ensure ripe members have a working abuse email address and act responsibly on notices.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">It seems you want to verify that a human reads the abuse box. However this will tell you nothing about how an organisation actually deals with abuse. So it will only burden ripe members to no avail.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">It is my belief ripe should stick to technical verification that a abuse email box exists and is able to receive mail. Ripe is not the internet sheriff :)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Alex<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">IDGARA | Alex de Joode | +31651108221<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><br>**********************************************<br> IPv4 is over<br> Are you ready for the new Internet ?<br> http://www.theipv6company.com<br> The IPv6 Company<br> <br> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. 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