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<div style="direction: ltr;">It would be a much needed thing if ripe legal were to chime in here so that they can issue an opinion on the proposal. This amateur theorizing isn't getting the discussion anywhere.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">--srs</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="dir="ltr""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Sascha Luck [ml] <aawg@c4inet.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 23, 2019 5:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [anti-abuse-wg] 2019-03 and over-reach
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On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 05:13:20PM +0000, Nick Hilliard wrote: <br>
>The aim of the 2019-03 proposal, as far as I understand it, is to <br>
>grant the RIPE NCC the authority to make formal judgements about <br>
>alleged abuse of network resources with the implicit intention that <br>
>unless the party involved ends the alleged abuse, the RIPE NCC would <br>
>enforce the judgement by LIR shutdown if the alleged infringer were a <br>
>member, or refusal to provide service if the alleged infringer were <br>
>not. <br>
<br>
It is actually worse than this, as I understand it. Based on <br>
recent contributions in this discussion, I now understand that <br>
it is proposed to make the determination of "network abuse" <br>
entirely outside the NCC and then to give this determination to <br>
the NCC Board to rubber-stamp and enforce it (and, implicitly <br>
assume the legal liability, one would presume) <br>
<br>
>There are other pile of other considerations here, not least whether <br>
>the RIPE NCC would have any legal jurisdiction to deregister resources <br>
>where it had determined "abuse", and what the legal liability of the <br>
>company would be if it were determined that they didn't have <br>
>jurisdiction to act. <br>
<br>
I am also somewhat worried about the possible fall-out for the <br>
members if the NCC were to be found to have acted incorrectly and <br>
be liable for the damages to the business of a member that was <br>
shut down... <br>
<br>
I would be very interested in NCC Legal's opinion on this. <br>
<br>
>But, this is not how to handle the problem of BGP hijacking. Even if it <br>
>had the slightest possibility of making any difference at a technical <br>
>level (which it won't), the proposal would set the RIPE Community and <br>
>the RIPE NCC down a road which I believe would be extremely unwise to <br>
>take from a legal and political point of view, and which would be <br>
>difficult, if not impossible to manoeuver out of. <br>
<br>
Much better put than I could hope to do, I fully endorse this <br>
statement. <br>
<br>
rgds, <br>
SL <br>
<br>
<br>
>Nick <br>
> <br>
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