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<div style="direction: ltr;">
<div style="direction: ltr;">This policy is a trifle late though </div>
<div><br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">This same setup kept getting used to route whole /14s a few years back.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">I wonder what poor soul has those ranges now.</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;">--srs</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="dir="ltr""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of furio ercolessi <furio+as@spin.it><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 20, 2019 4:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [anti-abuse-wg] 2019-03 New Policy Proposal (BGP Hijacking is a RIPE Policy Violation)
<div> </div>
</font></div>
On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 11:01:30AM +0300, Andrey Korolyov wrote: <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > And when everything is made clear, if a report is filed against AS1, AS1's <br>
> > holder might have a problem, so i see a strong reason for not even trying <br>
> > :-) <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> Out of interest, take an AS1 with single malicious upstream AS2, what stops <br>
> AS2 to pretend that AS1 has made bogus announcements and make them for its <br>
> own purposes? This situation looks pretty real without RPKI or other <br>
> advertisement strengthening methods, as I could see. How experts are <br>
> supposed to behave in this situation? <br>
<br>
This has been seen many times, even chain situations like <br>
<br>
<upstreams and peers> - AS X <br>
\ <br>
AS 3 - AS 2 - AS 1 <br>
/ <br>
<upstreams and peers> - AS Y <br>
<br>
where X and Y are legitimate ISPs, while {1,2,3} is basically a single rogue <br>
entity - or a set of rogue entities closely working together with a common <br>
criminal goal. <br>
<br>
In such a setup, AS 1 should be considered as the most "throw-away" resource, <br>
while AS 3 would play the "customer of customer, not my business" role, <br>
and AS 2 would play the "i notified my customer and will disconnect them <br>
if they continue" role. When AS 1 is burnt, a new one is made - with <br>
new people as contacts, new IP addresses, etc, so that no obvious correlation <br>
can be made. Most of the bad guys infrastructure is in AS 3 and that remains <br>
pretty stable because their bad nature can not be easily demonstrated. <br>
<br>
Whatever set of rules is made against hijacking, it should be assumed that <br>
these groups will do everything to get around those rules, and many AS's <br>
can be used to this end. Since there is no shortage of AS numbers, I <br>
assume that anybody can get one easily so they can change them as if they <br>
were underwear. <br>
<br>
And yes, unallocated AS's in the AS 1 position, announcing unallocated IPs, <br>
have also been seen. Those are even easier to get :-) <br>
<br>
So the ideal scheme to counteract BGP hijacking should be able to climb up <br>
the BGP tree in some way, until "real" ISPs are reached. <br>
<br>
Nice discussion! <br>
<br>
furio ercolessi <br>
<br>
<br>
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