<html><body><div>Please provide your source of information that chrome browsers rely on a local blacklist. </div> <blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black; font-family:verdana;"> <div id="wmQuoteWrapper"> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Google Privacy Abuse From: Serge Droz via anti-abuse-wg <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>> Date: Sat, March 16, 2019 6:37 am To: <a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a> Your assertion is wrong: Google safebrowsing works by comparing the URL to a local list, which the browser downloads from Google's Servers. Browser do not send the URL to Google for checking. See for example > <a href="https://superuser.com/questions/832608/what-is-being-send-to-received-from-safebrowsing-google-com-when-i-open-firefo">https://superuser.com/questions/832608/what-is-being-send-to-received-from-safebrowsing-google-com-when-i-open-firefo</a> Some ISPs in the US collect URLs from http traffic, but not https traffic, the later does not work. THat is indeed concerneing, but has nothing to do with Google. What Google or other see, however is URLs going through URL shortners,, or the urls you click on a Google page. Also trackers, embedded in many websites deliver info back to Google (or whatever tracker site). This again something that should be made a bit more transparent. I do feel it is very important to base any discussions surrounding the important topics discussed on this list on verifiable facts and not on claims or fear. Best Serge On 15/03/2019 13:41, Fi Shing wrote: > /"And no, You are also wrong: Opera does not upload your visited URL's > to a third party server."/ > > If opera (like chrome, edge or firefox) check the URL to see if it is > "dangerous" (a phishing URL etc) then that is logged on their end, when > it checks the database to see if the link has been flagged. > > This is the price that people pay for "free" browsers. > > Google protects you from "phishing websites", whilst archiving your > website access, and then sells that as marketing data to who ever will > buy it. > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Google Privacy Abuse > From: ac <<a href="mailto:ac@main.me">ac@main.me</a> ><<a href="mailto:ac@main.me">mailto:ac@main.me</a>>> > Date: Thu, March 14, 2019 8:16 pm > To: <a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>> > > Hi Esa, > > No, you are wrong... the URL's are not available to anyone. > > What is available to the ISP is the domain name lookup. (this is also > available to the DNS servers, etc - just the domain name) > > And no, You are also wrong: Opera does not upload your visited URL's to > a third party server. > > Up to now, nobody has even tried this as it is abuse / abusive > > HTTPS URL's, themselves frequently contain personal data and other > sensitive info, as the URL itself is supposes to be part of the > encrypted session. > > And, this is the whole point of all of this. > > If Google starts saving all URL's and link that with the local cache > (because they control the local software), the effect will be an > increase > in speed (as the media does not have to come over the encrypted > session) > > This will probably eventually FORCE Opera/Firefox/insert name here - to > also operate in this fashion, as users will want the speed - and they > will not know that it is less secure / less private, etc. > > This is a major issue and not a small issue, it will eventually affect > all of us. > > for example, one of my bank URL at login is: > > <a href="https://nameofbank.com/login">https://nameofbank.com/login</a> > > then, later in the session: > <a href="https://nameofbank.com/?id=x&transfer=1">https://nameofbank.com/?id=x&transfer=1</a> > etc etc > > This, right now, is not an issue as the URL itself is encrypted > > it is a major invasion of privacy that a third party vendor, supplying > "free" software is also now recording url's which gives them two > advantages over the ethical software providers. Not only that but that > their "innovation" of breaking the HTTPS protocol, may force other > vendors to go down the same path as the "consumers" are too lazy or > uninformed to understand what it happening. > > If society does nothing about this case of a multinational > leveraging people > against people's bad behavior (or poor choices - as Ronald said: use a > different browser) this will eventually affect us all. > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 09:53:47 +0100 > Esa Laitinen <<a href="mailto:esa@laitinen.org">esa@laitinen.org</a> ><<a href="mailto:esa@laitinen.org">mailto:esa@laitinen.org</a>>> wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 6:05 AM ac <<a href="mailto:ac@main.me">ac@main.me</a> ><<a href="mailto:ac@main.me">mailto:ac@main.me</a>>> wrote: > > > > > HTTPS protocol, by design, is secure and private. > > > > > > The average consumer expects this to be true. > > > > > > Google had to actually go and change, in an "under cover" way, the > > > entire way and method that HTTPS works. This "change" is being sold > > > as a "good thing" to poor people and/or people with low bandwidth > > > and that Google is doing a "good thing" by making this change. > > > > > > > Dear Andre > > > > The URLs you're accessing are also available for > > > > - your ISP > > - your VPN provider (unless you've rolled your own) > > and some information is also potentially stored by > > - your DNS provider > > > > And Opera browser has been doing similar things when you've enabled > > the bandwidth savings. > > > > or am I missing something? > > > > OK. I'm ignoring here that this particular thingi is using MITM > > methods to do the optimization, which is for me a bit more worrying > > than google having access to the URLs I browse. They have them mostly > > anyway. > > > > But, it is a choice a user makes, it is not forced upon them. > > > > > > Yours, > > > > esa > > > > > > > > -- Dr. Serge Droz Member of the FIRST Board of Directors Senior Advisor <a href="https://www.first.org">https://www.first.org</a> <a href="https://www.ict4peace.org">https://www.ict4peace.org</a> </div> </blockquote></body></html>