<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000; font-size:12pt;"><div>What a waste of time then.</div><div><br></div><div>You might as well not implement this policy, because nothing you suggest in this "policy" even requires a policy. You could just set up something that checks whether a mail server exists and it doesn't even need RIPE consensus. </div><div><br></div><div>What about checking whether a mail server exists requires RIPE consensus?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><i>"however it was made clear that there would be marked opposition to things that required human interaction in this way."</i></div><div><i><br></i></div><div>There was also marked opposition to <b>not</b> requiring human interaction.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
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-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Decision on Proposal 2017-02<br>
From: Brian Nisbet <<a href="mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie">brian.nisbet@heanet.ie</a>><br>
Date: Thu, March 15, 2018 8:22 pm<br>
To: Name <<a href="mailto:phishing@storey.xxx">phishing@storey.xxx</a>>, Marco Schmidt <<a href="mailto:mschmidt@ripe.net">mschmidt@ripe.net</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>><br>
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</style> <div class="WordSection1"> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Morning,<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">What we’re discussing right now is the policy as proposed and the NCC’s implementation plan. We’ve had discussion at an earlier point in regards to additional methods of verification, however it was made clear that there would be marked opposition to things that required human interaction in this way.<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">With this in mind we are proceeding on this basis. Obviously if you would like to propose an alternative, then the WG Co-Chairs and the RIPE Policy Development Office are very happy to assist you with this.<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Brian<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Brian Nisbet <o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Network Operations Manager<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland<o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">+35316609040 <a href="mailto:brian.nisbet@heanet.ie">brian.nisbet@heanet.ie</a> <a href="http://www.heanet.ie">www.heanet.ie</a><o:p></o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270<o:p></o:p></span></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> anti-abuse-wg <<a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Name<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday 15 March 2018 00:40<br> <b>To:</b> Marco Schmidt <<a href="mailto:mschmidt@ripe.net">mschmidt@ripe.net</a>>; <a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Decision on Proposal 2017-02<o:p></o:p></span></div> </div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><i><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">"If this policy change reaches consensus, the RIPE NCC will proactively <br> validate whether the "abuse-mailbox:" attribute is valid."</span></i><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">No it doesn't. How does RIPE loading a system that checks whether a mail server exists even need a change to policy? There is nothing listed in this "policy" that even needs to be implemented as policy.<o:p></o:p></span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">From what is said, RIPE will not check whether an abuse mailbox is valid, but whether a mail server exists at a domain specified.<o:p></o:p></span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Mail server exists ≠ valid abuse mailbox attribute</span><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> </div> <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" id="replyBlockquote"> <div id="wmQuoteWrapper"> <div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">-------- Original Message --------<br> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Decision on Proposal 2017-02<br> From: Marco Schmidt <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:mschmidt@ripe.net">mschmidt@ripe.net</a>><br> Date: Thu, March 15, 2018 2:02 am<br> To: <a target="_blank" href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a><br> <br> Dear Malcolm,<br> <br> <br> On 2018-03-14 14:47:13 CET, Malcolm Hutty wrote:<br> > On 14/03/2018 13:32, Marco Schmidt wrote:<br> > > Please let me reiterate that the RIPE NCC will not activate the<br> > > closure procedure simply for failure to maintain the "abuse-mailbox:"<br> > > attribute.<br> > > <br> > > The closure procedure could be activated if the resource holder refuses<br> > > to provide correct abuse contact information or is unresponsive over a<br> > > longer period (during which the RIPE NCC will have made several attemps<br> > > to contact the resource holder via different channels).<br> > <br> > Marco,<br> > <br> > Thank you for your detailed mail. However I do not understand how the<br> > two sentences quoted above are consistent with each other. Is it that<br> > you won't activate the closure procedure *solely* for failure to<br> > maintain abuse-mailbox, but might activate it if this was compounded<br> > with some other breach?<br> > <br> > How would you feel if the policy was amended to say something along the<br> > lines of<br> > <br> > "For the pupose of RIPE-676 paragraph 1.6.2.1.1 (Violation of RIPE<br> > Policys and RIPE NCC Procedures), failure to maintain the abuse-mailbox<br> > attribute shall not be deemed sufficient reason to terminate the SSA in<br> > itself, but may be deemed an aggravating factor contributing towards a<br> > decision to terminate the SSA."<br> <br> I see how those two lines can be confusing when taken together - thank <br> you for asking us to clarify.<br> <br> If this policy change reaches consensus, the RIPE NCC will proactively <br> validate whether the "abuse-mailbox:" attribute is valid. If our<br> automated validation indicates that the attribute is technically<br> incorrect, we will contact the resource holder (directly or indirectly <br> via the sponsoring LIR) and ask them to review and correct the "abuse-mailbox:" <br> attribute.<br> <br> This is still outside of the closure and deregistration procedure.<br> <br> It would be the following actions of the resource holder that could lead <br> to us activating the closure procedure - such as refusing to provide <br> correct abuse contact information or remaining unresponsive over a <br> longer period.<br> <br> This is already our current procedure when investigating incorrect <br> contact information and this would not change if the policy change <br> reaches consensus.<br> <br> Regarding potential amendments, it would be up to the Anti-Abuse<br> Working Group to decide if these are worthwhile. But I am happy to <br> provide the RIPE NCC's understanding based on the current version of the <br> policy proposal as well as clarification on the current RIPE policy <br> framework.<br> <br> Kind regards,<br> Marco Schmidt<br> Policy Development Officer<br> RIPE NCC<br> <br> > <br> > Kind Regards,<br> > <br> > Malcolm.<br> > <br> > -- <br> > Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523<br> > Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog<br> > London Internet Exchange | <a target="_blank" href="http://publicaffairs.linx.net">http://publicaffairs.linx.net</a>/<br> > <br> > London Internet Exchange Ltd<br> > Monument Place, 24 Monument Street London EC3R 8AJ<br> > <br> > Company Registered in England No. 3137929<br> > Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA<br> > <br> > <br> <br> <br> Sent via RIPE Forum -- <a target="_blank" href="https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum">https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum</a><o:p></o:p></span></div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div>
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