<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="FR" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div class="WordSection1"> Malcolm,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> To be clear regarding the acceptability of the auto-responder:<o:p></o:p> It refers to "If no valid reply is received by RIPE NCC within two weeks (including if the email bounces back), the “abuse-mailbox:” contact attribute will be marked as invalid"<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Hervé<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> -----Message d'origine----- De : anti-abuse-wg [mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net] De la part de Malcolm Hutty Envoyé : lundi 25 septembre 2017 16:01 À : ox; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Objet : Re: [anti-abuse-wg] 2017-02: what does it achieve? <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Andre writes:<o:p></o:p> > probably, yes. if ai is advanced enough to deal with incoming <o:p></o:p> > communications in an acceptable fashion, this will be just fine.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> > - your trust in your ai would be most commendable and as imho, ai will<o:p></o:p> > be running everything in a few years anyway, this is perfectly<o:p></o:p> > acceptable<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Andre, please accept my apologies for writing about the "Turing test",<o:p></o:p> it was meant lightheartedly but has confused the issue. It is my fault<o:p></o:p> for being flippant.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I didn't envisage that a true AI would handle would such enquiries. I<o:p></o:p> was pointing out two areas that are problematic, separately:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> 1. The RIPE NCC may not recognise an auto-responder when they see it, if<o:p></o:p> it has been tailored to them specifically (and to achieving a formal but<o:p></o:p> spurious compliance); and<o:p></o:p> 2. A response by a real human being may be just useless as a bounce<o:p></o:p> message, if constrained by policy. That is to say, if all the human is<o:p></o:p> permitted to do is choose from a small range of stock responses (such as<o:p></o:p> directing the person making the enquiry to some pre-written FAQ) then<o:p></o:p> this is equivalent to an autoresponder, so why prohibit (deem<o:p></o:p> non-compliant) only the automated response?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> However from Hervé's reply I see that a less ambitious bar is being set,<o:p></o:p> and an autoresponder is acceptable, whether a human autoresponder or a<o:p></o:p> software one. I have my doubts that this really achieves anything<o:p></o:p> useful, but at least it is clear.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> On 25/09/2017 11:34, ox wrote:<o:p></o:p> > On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 10:55:09 +0100<o:p></o:p> > Malcolm Hutty <<a href="mailto:malcolm@linx.net">malcolm@linx.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p> >> Scenario 1: An LIR directs e-mail sent to their abuse-cc: address to<o:p></o:p> >> an auto-responder that says "This mailbox is not monitored by a human<o:p></o:p> >> being", and advises on alternate "support services" (e.g. a FAQ, a<o:p></o:p> >> webform that feeds a ticketing system etc). Is RIPE NCC intended to<o:p></o:p> >> mark the attribute as invalid in this scenario?<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> > there is no point to have an email address that does not exist or is not monitored.<o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > if or when email ever stops working and is replaced by alternate "support services"<o:p></o:p> > this will be a good timeTM to accept non monitored email addresses<o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > but to granularly define generally accepted forms of communications,<o:p></o:p> > is pointless as there will always be a good reason for whatever form of<o:p></o:p> > communication, to not be suitable or acceptable to someone.<o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > take mobile, or phone numbers, it can easily be argued "but i am not<o:p></o:p> > available to take calls" or whatever... - everything always has<o:p></o:p> > exceptions, it is whether those exceptions are generally reasonable or not<o:p></o:p> > and/or generally acceptable. <o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> >> Scenario 2: An LIR filters incoming e-mail sent to their abuse-cc:<o:p></o:p> >> address. Email from RIPE NCC gets "priority treatment", i.e. is<o:p></o:p> >> directed to someone who passes a Turing test administered by the NCC.<o:p></o:p> >> E-mail from anyone else gets the same treatment as in scenario 1.<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> >> Is Scenario 2 compliant with the policy? If not, how is RIPE NCC<o:p></o:p> >> supposed to know to mark the attribute as invalid? What tests are the<o:p></o:p> >> NCC supposed to administer? And what must an LIR do to pass them?<o:p></o:p> >><o:p> </o:p> > probably, yes. if ai is advanced enough to deal with incoming<o:p></o:p> > communications in an acceptable fashion, this will be just fine.<o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > ianal but, there are legal implications, if your ai receives x notice, replies, etc.<o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > - your trust in your ai would be most commendable and as imho, ai will<o:p></o:p> > be running everything in a few years anyway, this is perfectly<o:p></o:p> > acceptable :)<o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> > Andre <o:p></o:p> > <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> -- <o:p></o:p> Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523<o:p></o:p> Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog<o:p></o:p> London Internet Exchange | <a href="http://publicaffairs.linx.net/"> http://publicaffairs.linx.net/</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> London Internet Exchange Ltd<o:p></o:p> Monument Place, 24 Monument Street London EC3R 8AJ<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Company Registered in England No. 3137929<o:p></o:p> Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <PRE>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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