<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <tt>Hi Sascha</tt> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/08/2017 21:58, Sascha Luck [ml] wrote: </div> <blockquote cite="mid:20170801195800.GD27011@cilantro.c4inet.net" type="cite"> On the RIPE community side, I find these statements problematic: "[LEAs] also have a right to help shape RIPE Policy using the Policy Development Process." They do? My understanding of the PDP is that *individuals* make policy proposals and *individuals* discuss them. Is this no longer the case? Is RIPE policy now made by lobby groups and other "interested" organisations? And, yes, I am aware that individuals may be fronting for an organisation, this does not, in my understanding, mean their voice carries any more weight. </blockquote> As you said, many times individuals propose policies on behalf of organisations or a collective of individuals. Often, after some discussion on a mailing list, someone offers to author a policy proposal based on the collective discussion. Where does this point about 'carries more weight' come from? There was no reference to this in the article or in any responses to your comments. And besides the PDP follows a process that includes open discussion and drawing a consensus based on that discussion. There is no element of weighting in the process. <blockquote cite="mid:20170801195800.GD27011@cilantro.c4inet.net" type="cite"> "Part of my job is to help LEAs understand this process and how their suggestions on changing policy would impact the broader RIPE community, such as making changes to the RIPE Database, for example, that would make it easier for them to find the closest service provider to an end user engaged in criminal activity. This isn't special treatment, though �the RIPE NCC also helps governments, network operators, banks, business owners or anyone else interested in submitting a policy proposal do these things as well. It's part of our job as the RIPE secretariat." I was under the impression that this is the function of the NCC Impact Statement within the PDP. Neither does ripe-642 mention any discussions with or "help" from the NCC prior to the working group process. Perhaps someone can amplify on this? </blockquote> It has always been part of the RIPE NCC's work to help with understanding and following process. That is why they write documentation, run training courses and have Customer Support. Whether it is written or not, it has been said many times that the PDO will assist anyone who wishes to write a policy proposal. cheers denis <blockquote cite="mid:20170801195800.GD27011@cilantro.c4inet.net" type="cite"> rgds, Sascha Luck </blockquote> </body> </html>