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<DIV>Amazing Norman,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Taking advantage of the good mood of Shane and plagiarizing Dr Seuss, I
would say to you, Norman, <EM>Oh, the places you will go!</EM> Do not expect a
future filled with unlimited potential as envisioned by Dr. Seuss.</DIV>
<DIV>Unlike Dr. Seuss, me and Shane will not motivate you. I'll support you
because, like you, I'm not an administrator, and Shane, despite being one of the
fox caring the henhouse and work (volunteer) in the RIPE Programme Committee, he
is reliable and cultivated. ;)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>First I would like to tell you that here is not the place to discuss abuse
(I'm not joking) and much less to get policy to require abuse contacts to accept
abuse reports. Where would be ?! There is no such place. And the reason is very
simple: in 2014 were 162 billion spam PER DAY. Turn it into cash, jobs and taxes
and you will understand why governments turn a blind eye. And most people in
that group are here to ensure the continuity of the status quo.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'll give you a hint. Try to read between the lines of the answers you
receive from this group. Eg .: read again the first response you received from
co-chair Bryan and compare with the second after you say you're following a
suggestion of an RIPE NCC IP resource analyst. And try to understand what
motivates them.</DIV>
<DIV>Norman, you wrote:</DIV>
<DIV><EM>“...But if the community really still favours spammers, I'm sorry I
wasted your time too.”</EM></DIV>
<DIV>Yes, all over the world, this community not only favors as protect and hide
spammers and scammers from their victims. Greed moves the wheels of the global
economy. The agenda is: cheating, just try not to get caught.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'll tell you what Shane told you but with other words:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You do not need any new policy or better definitions, or improving the
existing Whois. As Shane said everything depends solely on the ISP and
Registrars posture. The elements that are there are enough for you to build a
complete complaint. More detailed information will not change the position of a
provider. Even the identity of a spammer, with privacy protection service, is
dispensable although there are ways to identify him.</DIV>
<DIV>Shane was wrong when told you that the members of RIPE will say: “thank you
for your e-mail, we will not act on it at this time.”</DIV>
<DIV>The answer will be: “Sorry, this is not our function”</DIV>
<DIV>If you insist they will rub on your face a convenient statute. And you will
have the feeling that you are talking to mobsters.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Shane sorry but you are wrong when you say: <EM>“...but to check that abuse
complaints are actually handled is quite difficult.”</EM></DIV>
<DIV>In fact it's a bit laborious but very very EASY. Just report once, with
evidence. If the spammer repeat, the Provider needs to be alerted, with
evidence. If it happens a third time, the same spammer and same ISP, make no
mistake - this Provider does not respect their AUPs and ASPs, does not respect
those who denounce and should be treated as a criminal scoundrel he is.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And Norman, from this third complaint all new complaints against this
Provider should be copied to all Providers involved – relay, sender, host – and
to the organizations that regulate these activities, to the media (I suggest
WSJ, The Economist, The Guardian and local midia) and for scanners. Depending on
the severity of the complaint, copy also to Anonymous.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If a small percentage of victims of abuse act that way, will demonize the
life of these scoundrels as they do to us - spam of denounce. They are thousands
but we are billions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And Norman, you do not need anyone<SPAN
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“Jump, and you will find out how to unfold your wings as you fall.” (Ray
Bradbury)</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV>Marilson</DIV>
<DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net
href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg-request@ripe.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:00 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net
href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 59, Issue 23</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
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digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR> 1. Re: Need policy to
require abuse contacts to accept abuse<BR> reports
(Shane
Kerr)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message:
1<BR>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:24:30 +0200<BR>From: Shane Kerr
<shane@time-travellers.org><BR>To: Norman Diamond
<n0diamond@yahoo.co.jp><BR>Cc: "anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net"
<anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net><BR>Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Need policy to
require abuse contacts to<BR>accept abuse reports<BR>Message-ID:
<20160923162430.71adafcf@pallas.home.time-travellers.org><BR>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>Norman,<BR><BR>At 2016-09-23 06:41:04
+0900<BR>Norman Diamond <n0diamond@yahoo.co.jp> wrote:<BR><BR>> >
Again, if you would like to proceed, I and the NCC would be very<BR>> >
happy to help. <BR>> <BR>> OK, if Mr. Nisbet and the NCC think it
would be worth while to<BR>> proceed, I will try to help.<BR>> <BR>> Do
you need copies of bounces?? Copies of the short e-mail discussion<BR>>
between me and the NCC?<BR><BR>I admire your willingness to help. In the words
of Dr. Seuss, "?Unless<BR>someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is
going to get<BR>better. It's not."<BR><BR><BR>Having said that, there are
several very difficult issues to solve in<BR>making a policy as you
describe.<BR><BR><BR>The first issue is that having a contact e-mail does not
really help if<BR>the company does not do anything about an abuse report. Even
if the<BR>policy says "each report must be seen by a human" then it will
just<BR>mean that the RIPE members will have a person who's job it is to
say<BR>"thank you for your e-mail, we will not act on it at this
time".<BR><BR>If you insist that a organization do something for an abuse
report, then<BR>it becomes very difficult to define what must be
done.<BR><BR><BR>A related issue is how you check any requirement to have
contacts. It is<BR>easy to make an automated check that an abuse mail works. It
is even<BR>easy to make a system where you insure that a human is checking
the<BR>mailbox. But to check that abuse complaints are actually handled
is<BR>quite difficult.<BR><BR><BR>Another issue is what should be done to
organizations that do not<BR>implement such a policy properly. In principle it
is possible to revoke<BR>number resources (IP addresses and autonomous system
numbers). While<BR>this was always a difficult idea, it is even more difficult
now, since<BR>people are trading IP addresses between each other for large
amounts<BR>of money.<BR><BR>I think that without any penalty for violating the
policy, it will not<BR>make any difference. Good operators will continue to run
their networks<BR>responsibly, and bad operators will not
care.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>--<BR>Shane<BR>-------------- next part
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