<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><div style="direction: inherit;">You might find "I know it when I see it" as reasonable a definition as this group is ever going to arrive at</div> --srs</div><div> On 27-Aug-2016, at 6:17 PM, ox <<a href="mailto:andre@ox.co.za">andre@ox.co.za</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 18:04:53 +0530 Suresh Ramasubramanian <<a href="mailto:ops.lists@gmail.com">ops.lists@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote type="cite">The one takeaway i get from this seems to be that the bad guys are </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">perfectly aware of just where they can find loose or poorly </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">implemented security and abuse policies - who is incompetent, who is </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">malicious, who to abuse, who not to abuse </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">And action if any gets taken only after significant pressure is </blockquote><blockquote type="cite">applied. </blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>true... as per the convo - easy to find a .ru upstream, etc. But, it is becoming more obvious that before we can deal with anything properly anyway, we need to be able to properly define what it is. How can anyone expect anyone to implement proper abuse policies if open society cannot even agree, openly, about what internet abuse even is? Andre </div></blockquote></body></html>