<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=NL link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>Hi Marilson,<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Thanks for your apology, accepted on my part. Although I don’t think individual cases belong in the list, I’m not sure I have seen any other content on this list at all. Which is saddening as well. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Regarding abuse in general and how to police it (which is basically what it comes down to since it won’t go away automatically)… I have come to a few conclusions for myself:<o:p></o:p><![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>Every resource, such as an IP, routing via tier-1, a server or a registration at RIPE is part of abuse.<o:p></o:p><![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>I think that after a certain threshold of complaints is generated, the resource holder must take its responsibility. It should be easy to complain against abuse.<o:p></o:p><![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>Every resource holder should monitor for abuse and do its best to keep the resource up to spec to avoid abuse.<o:p></o:p><![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>In abuse, even the reaction of one of the resource holders is enough to break the chain of said abuse. It takes only one. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Now here is the part that sucks and RIPE does not care much about: The database of RIPE is inaccurate, it definitely is a resource, and does not work very well in (abuse) corner cases. They are not willing to break the abuse chain because they are not willing to police, for whatever reason they (or an individual) name(s). I won’t say that RIPE is the only party not taking responsibility though.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Now I understand that when you even struggle with the definition of abuse, it is hard to respond (don’t let facts bother you, RIPE). But not keeping the registration up to spec makes it abuse-friendly. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Please make it possible to break the chain of abuse! <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>/rant<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p>David Hofstee<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Deliverability Management<o:p></o:p>MailPlus B.V. Netherlands (ESP)<o:p></o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>Van: anti-abuse-wg [mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces@ripe.net] Namens Marilson Verzonden: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 8:53 PM Aan: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Onderwerp: [anti-abuse-wg] Excuses<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p><div><div>THE ANTI-ABUSE-WG ARCHIVES:<o:p></o:p>In August 2015 the only discussion held was generated by a copy of my complaint addressed to an ISP - 13 messages<o:p></o:p>In September 2015 the only discussion held was generated by a copy of my complaint addressed to an ISP - 42 messages<o:p></o:p>Against the grain of these numbers I was politely warned that my messages to the list should certainly be blocked because I clearly do not understand what the list currently does.<o:p></o:p>I was also warned that the list is not the place to make complaints and that I should look for spamcop in the Google search.<o:p></o:p>I would like to clarify to the group that I always start my complaints in <a href="mailto:submit.snA38em0rJTkVJ7B@spam.spamcop.net">submit.snA38em0rJTkVJ7B@spam.spamcop.net</a>, once finalized in spamcop I send the complaint to the ISP responsible for the spammer with copies to pertinent institutions. And copy to <a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a>.<o:p></o:p>I copy for <a href="mailto:anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net">anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net</a> because I have noticed that my complaints have generated much discussion in the group. I thought I was being helpful. Since I am doing the wrong thing, I apologize to the group members and retreat myself wishing a good job for everyone.<o:p></o:p>Greetings<o:p></o:p>Marilson<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></body></html>