[anti-abuse-wg] So many idiots. So little time.

My bad! I assumed that when u create or follow a training course that u want
to learn or teach a way that ALWAYS works.

With my assumption of the below.
To solve the abuse problem u either need a system that can hold the abuser
responsible or and that would be even better u need a system where nobody
would grow an interest to even try to abuse and when u start thinking into
this direction all the other "BIG" problems in the world will become easy to
solve. (Yes u read this right they are easy to solve, we currently just use
the wrong systems (all over the world) to guide and lead us)

When u would have a good system then a large portion or maybe even all of
the current training material would be irrelevant since it is based on the
current system that doesn't provide a solution for the problem.

What u are saying is that when I create a training that teaches 1+1=11 and
someone out there wants to learn this that this would be a usefull training
.... (maybe for someone to do on his own but not for a global/regional
solution).

It doesn't matter to which group u belong to, in the end we all belong to
the same group called Humans....
We need a fair worldwide system where power is removed from all
individuals!!!! (Since power allways creates a form of abuse)

Kind regards,

Jeroen


-----Original Message-----
From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of
Hans-Martin Mosner via anti-abuse-wg
Sent: zaterdag 13 augustus 2022 16:47
To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] So many idiots. So little time.

Am 13.08.22 um 14:13 schrieb jeroen at hackersbescherming.nl:
> I would say perfect for that anti abuse training!

Training is useful if you want to learn and achieve the training subject
matter. Serverius (like many other hosting/colocation providers) is in the
business of deflecting trouble from their customers. In an old antispam
forum post I found this quote without exact source, which could be used
verbatim by most of them:

> Serverius IT infrastructure is providing underlying infrastructure 
> services without any hosting activities. Serverius is not a hosting 
> provider as it has no data carrier hardware like servers or disk 
> storage services under management (only our clients do). Serverius is 
> only providing the parent data center colocation of client hardware 
> and/or IP connectivity services that are used by clients to build 
> their own infrastructure. Their services are used by millions of companies
in the world. Therefore Serverius does not know what Serverius network users
are hosting (it's technically impossible for us to see and forbidden by law)
and Serverius is therefore not liable for what our customer hosts behind its
own network and/or on his own infrastructure.
Legally, they may be right (of course they are not allowed to peek into
their customer's servers). However, there's something more to it - you could
have contract and AUP clauses which prohibit spamming/abuse and give the
provider leverage to enforce that prohibition. But some providers apparently
prefer to keep such clauses out of their contracts and don't want to waste
money on abuse desk training because a well-paying customer is a well-paying
customer after all. 
"Pecunia non olet", as Vespasian is reported to have said.

Those are not the target group for anti abuse training. They would probably
need it, but first they would need the will to stop network abuse emanating
from their infrastructure.

Cheers,
Hans-Martin


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