[anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct

>> The point remains that there is a code of conduct and I am reminding everyone of it.
 
Great. Now if we can take this ^ ^ ^ and apply it to RIPE as a whole, then this group might be 50% of the way towards actually being an anti-abuse working group.
 
Otherwise, someone should move a motion on this group that the group be renamed to :
 
"Anti-Anti-abuse Working Group"
 
 
 
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: RE: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct
From: "Brian Nisbet" <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>
Date: 1/20/20 8:19 pm
To: "Fi Shing" <phishing at storey.xxx>, "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>

  Because they are two completely different things. 
  
 This is the RIPE Community, of which the RIPE NCC are the secretariat, amongst other things. The rules of conduct for this list and the wider community have nothing to do with the database, nor abuse verification nor any notion of Internet Police. 
  
 And honestly, you can attempt to find loopholes or argue nonsensical points of logic on this as much as you want. The point remains that there is a code of conduct and I am reminding everyone of it.
  
 Thank you,
  
 Brian
 Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG
  
 Brian Nisbet
 Service Operations Manager
 HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
 +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
 Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
  
    From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Fi Shing
 Sent: Saturday 18 January 2020 07:22
 To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
 Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct
 


  It appears you missed the point of my email.
 

 
How can you say rules apply to this list, but not RIPE itself?
 

 
Given the logic of many on this list:
 

 
 You are not the internet police, Some people may not agree with a rule, so therefore there are no rules at all, you, as an administrator enforcing this rule of "no personal attacks" would require you to open your emails, which is too much to ask of you as an administrator. 

  
 


 
 --------- Original Message ---------
  Subject: RE: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct
 From: "Brian Nisbet" <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>
 Date: 1/17/20 10:42 pm
 To: "Fi Shing" <phishing at storey.xxx>, "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
  Honestly, you can disagree all you want, but there are rules of conduct in the RIPE community and on this list. My email served as a polite reminder of those rules. If a member of the list chooses not to follow them, then steps will be taken in regards to direct communication, then moderation of postings if it is felt necessary and on from there.
  
 The Co-Chairs would greatly prefer not to have to deal with any of this, nor impose any restrictions on engagement with the working group, but if we must, we must, because such attacks do not help the list discussion nor the policy development process.
  
 Thanks,
  
 Brian
 Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG
  
 Brian Nisbet
 Service Operations Manager
 HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
 +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie  www.heanet.ie
 Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
  
    From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Fi Shing
 Sent: Friday 17 January 2020 11:33
 To:  anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
 Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct
 


  >> but we can tell you not to do it here, so please don't.
 

 
Well... no, i disagree.
 

 
Brian Nisbet, i would like to remind you, that ... You are not the Internet Police.
 

 
In fact, what you consider to be a rule, might not be something that every single person on this planet also considers to be a rule, and so therefore, we have no rules at all, nor is there any basis for you to impose any rules on this list such as that which you have said.
 

 
To enforce this rule of "no personal attacks", would require you to open you email and read it once every year. That is too much for RIPE to envisage. It's too much resources. It's something that no administrator such as you SHOULD HAVE TO DO.
 

 
So therefore, let us discuss, in meaningless circular fashion, similar to what you find inside an insane asylum, this idea of yours.
 

 

 

 
SOUND FAMILIAR, ANYONE?
 

 

 

 
 --------- Original Message ---------
  Subject: [anti-abuse-wg] Periodic Reminder: List Conduct
 From: "Brian Nisbet" <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>
 Date: 1/17/20 8:23 pm
 To: "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
 
 Colleagues,
 
 It seems that at some point in every large list discussion I am compelled to send a mail of this type. This is not in response to any single mail, rather it is a reminder to all.
 
 Please remember to conduct yourselves well on this list, to discuss the matter at hand and not to attack the person writing the email. Most of the list discussion takes place in the appropriate manner, but I realise that when we're discussing matters about which any of us are passionate we can forget this.
 
 Ad hominem attacks, general slights, unfounded accusations, and many other things do not contribute to the list discussion. The Co-Chairs can't tell you not to send them by private mail (albeit we'd greatly prefer you didn't) nor to act in this manner in other for a (albeit we'd prefer if you didn't do that either), but we can tell you not to do it here, so please don't.
 
 Thank you all for your interest and passion for this subject.
 
 Brian
 Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG
 
 Brian Nisbet 
 Service Operations Manager
 HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
 +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie  www.heanet.ie
 Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
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