[anti-abuse-wg] RIPE NCC Executive Board election

I'm sorry to hear that you have given up the fight Hank to point to quotes
for inspiration I personally prefer something from the classics “The
penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs, is to be ruled by
evil men.” It sounds as though you have admitted defeat which is ok, but to
endorse it as the norm isn't helping anyone and only furthers the problem.
For those looking to "Turn on, tune in, drop out" please don't discourage
others, one can point to Ron's tone or verbose delivery and make comment,
but he is trying. Are you?

As members of the anti-abuse working group, we shouldn't promote telling
others to quit, rather ask what can anti-abuse being doing to make better
use of the insights that Ron and others are discovering? To the responder
from Europol can you help provide some insight into what is needed to enact
change? Is there a framing issue? Audience issue? ... etc

To Tõnu's point we need a way for this community to take action or a subset
of the community that does agree that action is needed. We could work with
CIRCL to push for wider use or coverage from existing projects like
https://bgpranking.circl.lu/ or work to develop a similar function within
RIPE. To those who will respond we aren't the internet police, if there are
no "Internet Police" then we are all the internet police and need to start
taking creating community mechanisms to identify bad neighborhoods and work
with our peers to deal with them.

Take it easy




On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 10:49 AM Hank Nussbacher <hank at efes.iucc.ac.il>
wrote:

> On 17/04/2020 09:55, Serge Droz via anti-abuse-wg wrote:
>
> Serge,
>
> Your post brought a smile to my face.
>
> When bank robber Willie Sutton was asked "why do you rob banks?" he
> answered "because that is where the money is".
> So too with the Internet.  Criminals and miscreants (a term coined and
> favored by Team Cymru), have long ago realized that Internet resources
> are worth money and where else can you be close to these resources than
> inside any RIR.   Some events make it to the news and probably many
> others will never see the light of day.
>
> Ronald's overly long tomes with a tone I disapprove of yet the content I
> do approve of, are scoffed at by many and yet I am reminded of Danish
> author Hans Christian Andersen tale "The Emperor's New Clothes".  And we
> are the emperor.
>
> I have long ago stopped trying to make the Internet a safer place.   Not
> gonna happen.  I protect my resources as best I can.  I protect my
> little pond as best I can.
>
> A smile appears on my face when I realize there are still naive and
> idealistic people out there who still think they can make a difference.
> Not gonna happen.
>
> Regards,
> Hank
>
> > Hello List
> >
> > I've been, mostly passive, on this list for quite a while. I must say we
> > really excel in terms of abusing each other. And I agree with Ronald, we
> > seem to fail coming forward with even partial solutions to prevent
> > abuse. I am disappointed by the tone on this list. One can, and should
> > disagree on topics, but one should not loose the common goal, reduce
> > abuse in our case. I fear we are doing just that.
> >
> > Maybe the striving for a perfect solution, that has no side effects is
> > not the right approach. Criminals don't mind side effects, and maybe
> > rather than avoiding them we should try to control and minimize them.
> >
> > While I'm not the right person to determine what topics are appropriate
> > for the list, I don't see any harm in asking people to maybe consider
> > viable candidates for board positions. We can discuss the tone. This
> > group repeatedly pointed out the importance of a bottom up, democratic
> > governance structure for RIPE. I'd argue, that a good selection of
> > candidates for such a position is the basis for this.
> >
> > I would hope for the abuse WG to become a little more pragmatic and
> > positive thinking when trying to come up with solutions to fight abuse.
> > "Divide and conquer" is a concept criminals thrive on too.
> >
> > Having said that, I wish everyone good health and and a hopefully
> > enjoyable weekend.
> >
> > Best
> > Serge
> >
>
>
>
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