[anti-abuse-wg] Fw: Re: @EXT: RE: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

Furio,

I should say that I find the posts with explicit information extremely useful as well, along with the presentations we've had at meetings with similar content.

My comments on the recent email should *not* be taken to suggest that I do not believe such content is suitable for the WG. I absolutely do thing it is suitable.

I do not class the post to which I objected as that kind of material.

I think your other comments are definitely food for thought.

Thank you,

Brian
Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG

Brian Nisbet
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270

________________________________________
From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of furio ercolessi <furio+as at spin.it>
Sent: Friday 17 April 2020 11:33
To: anti-abuse-wg
Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Fw: Re: @EXT: RE: RIPE NCC Executive Board election

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Good morning,

as everybody is certainly aware, the antiabuse scenario has become rather complex, so
possibly one of the weak points of this group may be its rather wide charter
[https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fripe%2Fwg%2Fanti-abuse&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cce734e8edeed4a9d5e2e08d7e2bad1cc%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C1%7C637227164321285662&sdata=rLTAy7RTthQkMx7sQQmWdCV5YBPEjnwQ576PNbdOJxs%3D&reserved=0].

With specialized discussions on various other abuse-related topics happening on many
different fora around, it is however natural to continue considering this as the
central and reference forum for all aspects related with one single important issue:
network assets in the RIPE NCC region (IPv4 ranges and ASNs) used in a *dedicated*
way by criminals or abusers (that is, excluding abuse from customers of real ISPs
about which nothing can be done here besides chatting).

These groups are very hungry for "clean" ranges, "bulletproof" ranges, "new" ranges
in a scenario where IPv4 costs are raising to the stars - with all this implies
in terms, for instance, of corruption as we have seen in the recent AFRINIC case.

So, I admit that I am here almost exclusively for informations and discussions
about RIPE NCC resources in the hands of criminals, and in this sense I found the
information supplied by Ron to be extremely valuable, even if this may not be
the best place to have a discussion about it and even if his reference to
the position in the list of candidates was probably an unfortunate oversight -
but from previous discussions there was no doubt about the identity of the
questionable candidate.

I would be favorable to either a focusing of the group charter on RIPE NCC
resources dedicated to abuse, or to a new workgroup specifically targeting
this aspect -- even if the presence of abusers themselves and their facilitators
in open groups would limit strongly what the group could achieve operationally.

Regards

Furio


On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:30:17AM +0200, Javier Martín wrote:
> Good morning to everybody.
>
> Maybe I have not explained myself well.
>
> My problem is not that they are children or adults, my problem is that there are hackers, and they do what they want, they even own ips in RIPE, and there is no way to do anything, that is the problem that affects us.
>
> The question for me is if we are going to remain motionless or if we are going to act together to counter the situation. The good ones are tied hand and foot, and the bad ones have free field to disturb at ease.
>
>
> Kind regards
> Javier
>
>
>
>
> Javier Martín
> Departamento de Gestión | CentroRed
> tel:  +34 952200958 [tel:+34 963162089]
> site:  centrored.com
> email:  javier.martin at digitalvalue.es [mailto:javier.martin at digitalvalue.es]
> dirección:  Av. Ausias March 104, bajo - 46026 - Valencia
> Sobre 17/04/2020 11:21:21, Serge Droz via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> escribió:
> Hi Javier
>
>
> > Many times we have hackers perfectly located, many are kids with a lot
> > of ability to annoy, but little to protect themselves (we often find
> > them in forums)
> >
> If many hackers are kids, we don't have legal problem, but we fail as
> society. I think it's beyond the scope of the WG to address this
> problem. But I do feel, that states need to also take care of children
> that show talent in cyber matters. We do it for athletes, making sure
> these kids can spend their energy in sorting competition rather than
> some destructive behaviour.
> Cyber Criminals are good at spotting and fostering talent in foras. No
> on get's up in the morning and say, gosh today I become a cyber criminal.
>
> Best
> Serge
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Serge Droz
> Chair of the FIRST Board of Directors
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.first.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbrian.nisbet%40heanet.ie%7Cce734e8edeed4a9d5e2e08d7e2bad1cc%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C1%7C637227164321285662&sdata=yWXWxCeLnN8RxF6CEceINy4tYBdkZyBcv7O6y7WJ6IU%3D&reserved=0
>