[anti-abuse-wg] 2019-03 and over-reach

Exactly!

If customers, employees, visitors, students, etc., are misusing the network (for example using it for spam, DDoS, child pornography, etc.), they are typically acting against the contract arrangements (AUP). If you've a bad contract that's a different problem, but even in that case, I'm sure that if you're taken to the courts because you cancel the contract, in most of the cases the court will recognize it as a correct action, because using the network for illegal actions is part of the illegal act itself.

In fact, if you don't bring down that "customer", you are actually a cooperator of those illegal acts if anyone can probe that you were aware of it. That's why I think the text that I had presented a couple of times in the last days about simple warnings in case of doubt or the first time for direct peers, make a lot of sense.

To put that in the extreme: You will not be jailed or punished because the court considers you as a "censor".

If you're member of a sports club (RIPE NCC for us), and the rules (our policy proposal) say that you must use swimming cap (adequate BGP filters) and you don't do so, you can, depending on the rules, get a warning, or directly get your membership cancel and even not get a reimbursement.

Note that there isn't any law that enforces using a swimming cap, however, I'm 100% sure the court will agree that the rule is lawful and enforceable.

Regards,
Jordi
 
 

El 23/3/19 6:29, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Ronald F. Guilmette" <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net en nombre de rfg at tristatelogic.com> escribió:

    
    In message <20190322233739.GK99066 at cilantro.c4inet.net>, 
    "Sascha Luck [ml]" <aawg at c4inet.net> wrote:
    
    >I am also somewhat worried about the possible fall-out for the
    >members if the NCC were to be found to have acted incorrectly and
    >be liable for the damages to the business of a member that was
    >shut down...
    
    I only wish that I had a dollar for every time I had heard this
    exact lame excuse from some ISP who I had asked to disconnect a
    spammer over the past 20 years.  If I did, I'd have enough money
    to run for President.
    
    This excuse isn't as popular now as it was in the old days, but one
    often used to get messages from ISPs saying "Oh, gee, we literally
    CAN'T unplug that spammer, because we have a contract, and he might
    sue us!"
    
    (Yea, yea, yea.   Tell it to the hand.)
    
    Simple solution:  Stop being an idiot and write better contracts.
    
    Every contract has some "out" clauses... you know like force majure,
    etc. etc., etc.
    
    If RIPE cannot afford or cannot find an attorney with sufficient
    skill to draft and include such "outs" I can refer it to some
    excellent practioners with emminently modest rates.
    
    
    Regards,
    rfg
    
    



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