[anti-abuse-wg] Constructive Approach & Anonymity (Was RE: Verification of abuse contact addresses ? )

Brian

I agree with you on most points, however I do have issues with the one regarding anonymity. 
If someone is going to come onto this list and start casting aspersions at RIPE members, RIPE NCC staff etc., which has happened more than once and seems to be trend, then I do not see why they should have the right to anonymity. 
RIPE members and NCC staff should have the ability to face their accuser, but if they're hiding behind a veil of anonymity that's problematic. 
Personally I also find it very hard to engage in any meaningful debate with "someone" if I have absolutely no idea who they are, who they represent or what their agenda is.

Regards

Michele


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On 09/03/2019, 00:15, "anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Brian Nisbet" <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net on behalf of brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> wrote:

    Folks,
    
    We aim for constructive discussion on the mailing list at all times and I would ask everyone to bear this in mind.
    
    I very much agree with " We make this a better world by helping with advice that empowers, not with diminish comments."
    
    I would also point out that there is no requirement for legal names to be used on the mailing list and there are many reasons in this world for anonymity. 
    
    As a final point to consider, the word 'lame' isn't great as it is ableist. There are many, many other suitable words in the English language that merit examination that are much better in this context.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Brian
    Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG
    
    Brian Nisbet 
    Service Operations Manager
    HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
    1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
    +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
    Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
    
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of
    > Serge Droz via anti-abuse-wg
    > Sent: Friday 8 March 2019 10:54
    > To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
    > Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Verification of abuse contact addresses ?
    > 
    > Hi
    > 
    > I'm fairly new here. This is a formidable task, and not easily achieved.
    > So kudos to RIPE for doing this. The abuse contacts already there helped me
    > a lot.
    > 
    > I don't appreciate people who can't even stand up with their real names, just
    > pointing out that others are lame.
    > 
    > We make this a better world by helping with advice that empowers, not with
    > diminish comments.
    > 
    > Cheers
    > Serge
    > 
    > 
    > On 08.03.19 11:40, Shane Kerr wrote:
    > > Fi Shing,
    > >
    > > I'm sure verifying the delivery of 70k e-mails (or however many is in
    > > the database) can be done in a few hours.
    > >
    > > But Marco's response mentions to *correcting* the contact addresses,
    > > not just verifying them. That involves working with human beings, so
    > > it makes sense that it will take a while.
    > >
    > > Cheers,
    > >
    > > --
    > > Shane
    > >
    > > On 08/03/2019 11.07, Fi Shing wrote:
    > >> If it takes more than a week to verify your entire database, there is
    > >> the first sign that something is wrong with your system.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>     -------- Original Message --------
    > >>     Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Verification of abuse contact
    > >> addresses ?
    > >>     From: Marco Schmidt <mschmidt at ripe.net
    > >> <mailto:mschmidt at ripe.net>>
    > >>     Date: Thu, March 07, 2019 10:03 pm
    > >>     To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com
    > >>     <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>,
    > >>     anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
    > >>
    > >>     Hello Ronald,
    > >>
    > >>     We are planning to publish an updated timeline soon.
    > >>
    > >>     Ultimately, our implementation will depend of the level of
    > >> cooperation
    > >>     we get from LIRs and the nature of issues that need to be fixed
    > >> before
    > >>     an abuse contact can be updated (for example, some organisations
    > >> may
    > >>     need to reset their maintainer password).
    > >>
    > >>     Over the next few weeks we will be analysing our progress, to
    > >> make a
    > >>     realistic estimation. From observations so far, we think we might
    > >> be
    > >>     able to finish our initial validation of all abuse contacts
    > >> within six
    > >>     months - but it is still too early to make any strong predictions.
    > >>
    > >>     Kind regards,
    > >>     Marco Schmidt
    > >>     RIPE NCC
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>     On 05/03/2019 21:51, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
    > >>     > In message <9c95c110-d5a3-e94a-6b3c-b02030736e7c at ripe.net
    > >>     <mailto:9c95c110-d5a3-e94a-6b3c-b02030736e7c at ripe.net>>,
    > >>     > Marco Schmidt <mschmidt at ripe.net <mailto:mschmidt at ripe.net>>
    > wrote:
    > >>     >
    > >>     >> It is correct that the implementation phase is still ongoing.
    > >> Currently
    > >>     >> we are validating all the abuse contact information referenced
    > >> in LIR
    > >>     >> organisation objects. Then we will proceed with the validation
    > >> of abuse
    > >>     >> contacts referenced in LIR resource objects - the example that
    > >> you
    > >>     >> mentioned belongs to this group. And finally all abuse
    > >> contacts
    > >>     >> referenced in End User (sponsored) objects will be validated.
    > >>     > Thanks for the info Marco.
    > >>     >
    > >>     > I guess the only question I would ask is this:  Is there a
    > >> published
    > >>     > timeline for how this whole process is planned to play out, and
    > >> for
    > >>     > when it is planned to be completed?
    > >>     >
    > >>     >
    > >>     > Regards,
    > >>     > rfg
    > >>     >
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > 
    > --
    > Dr. Serge Droz
    > Member of the FIRST Board of Directors    Senior Advisor ICT4Peace
    > https://www.first.org			  https://www.ict4peace.org