[anti-abuse-wg] AS24940 Hetzner -- non-role contact wanted

Colleagues,

This is an open mailing list for the RIPE Anti-Abuse Working Group where a variety of matters, including policy, are discussed.

It is not, nor hopefully will it ever be, a closed list with vetting etc. There are lists like that out there, they serve a very useful purpose, but this list is not them.

Like all RIPE mailing lists it is as open as possible and will remain so.

The Code of Conduct is not there to be used as a stick. It is there to welcome, to set certain norms of behaviour and, hopefully, to support useful discussion across RIPE mailing lists and meetings.

To be very clear, we do not believe anyone in this conversation has been misleading or impersonating anyone. We believe there are differences of opinion, possibly even very deep ones, but, barring the uncivil modes of discourse, nothing to trouble the Code of Conduct.

We would ask both of you, and all members of this list, to treat each other with civility, to discuss the technical or policy merits of any discussion and to assume good intent from others in all things. 

What any member of the list does in direct mail between the themselves is up to them, of course. However we would hope for a world in which there is as much civility as possible.

All of the Co-Chairs serve at the pleasure of the Working Group. If anyone here feels that one or more of us are not chairing it in an appropriate fashion then the procedure for the removal of a Co-Chair is here:

https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/wg/anti-abuse/anti-abuse-wg-chair-selection-process

We consider both Andre & Ronald to be members of this list and, barring future events, have no intention of removing either of you. We consider this matter to be closed at this point and we hope the list can return to the ongoing discussions. In a civil manner.

If anyone wishes to discuss this with the WG Chairs directly, please email aa-wg-chair at ripe.net

Thanks,

Alireza, Brian & Tobias
Co-Chairs, RIPE AA-WG

Brian Nisbet 
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270

> -----Original Message-----
> From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of ac
> Sent: Friday 26 April 2019 05:51
> To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] AS24940 Hetzner -- non-role contact wanted
> 
> On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:41:20 -0700
> "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> <snip senseless rant around here>
> >
> > Mr. Chairman, I ask you to summarily eject the member in question from
> > the mailing list with clear instructions not to return and not to try
> > to do so via the ruse of yet additional sock puppet fradulent
> > identities.  I ask you to do so in accordance with your clear
> > authority and responsibility under the RIPE Code of Conduct, which is,
> > I think, not at all ambiguous on this point.  You cannot, I think,
> > merely stand by and allow arbitrary actors with hidden agendas and
> > fradulent identities to infiltrate and repeatedly disrupt and thwart
> > this Working Group, or this mailing list, whether via repeated
> > off-topic rantings or via other artificial means.  To do so would be a
> > serious abrogation of your responsibilities as Chair of this WG, and
> > one which I and others might reasonably feel duty bound to bring to
> > the attention of other and higher RIPE authorities.
> >
> > I await the Chair's response and the Chair's appropriate action.
> >
> 
> So, if you do not get your way, me being ejected, then you are threatening
> the Chair?
> 
> All in the same post.
> 
> You are indeed an arrogant and ignorant bully.
> 
> And, you are the disruption. You have carefully crafted an identity over a
> decade or more, yet, even after looking carefully, I cannot see that you are
> pushing packets in RIPE. I also cannot see you anywhere among my own
> colleagues and I therefore do not understand what you are doing in this WG,
> except to cause disruption, division and spread FUD.
> 
> Your behavior even in this thread:
> 
> 1. You post on a website (links included in your original post) clearly states
> that Hetzner cannot investigate without you agreeing that they send the
> email headers to the service provider
> 
> You claim that this idea is the worst idea since "This is probably the best
> European idea since the one about invading Russia in Winter."
> 
> 2. When I point out that you are technically incorrect or ignorant - as the
> Hetzner response is completely true, ethical and correct and YOU are wrong
> 
> You start attacking me, with us now here where you are threatening that if I
> am not ejected from this WG you " I and others might reasonably feel duty
> bound to bring to the attention of other and higher RIPE authorities."
> 
> Your disruptive, arrogant and bully behavior is cause for you to be ejected
> from this WG
> 
> Andre
> 
> 
> 
> 
>