[anti-abuse-wg] 2019-03 New Policy Proposal (BGP Hijacking is a RIPE Policy Violation)

El 18/4/19 9:15, "anti-abuse-wg en nombre de Carlos Friaças via anti-abuse-wg" <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net en nombre de anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> escribió:

    
    
    Hi,
    
    
    On Thu, 18 Apr 2019, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote:
    
    > On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 1:39 AM Carlos Friaças via anti-abuse-wg
    > <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> wrote:
    >> And how will a dutch court determine a wrong decision was made? by getting
    >> a different set of experts...?
    >
    > E.g. by judging on an evidence found later, and with that evidence
    > making a decision that original set of experts did their job poorly.
    
    Experts (on any given subject matter) can be wrong, if they look only at a 
    specific dataset.

Even in courts cases, experts (judicial experts, "peritos judiciales" in Spanish), can produce wrong advice. This is why we have an appeal process.
    
    If data is not available on the year a crime was commited, and it surfaces 
    only 5 years later, i wouldn't say the experts did a poor job. They might 
    have done a good job with the data available at the time.
    
    
    
    > NCC has arbiters for quite a while. Who's responsible for their mistakes?
    
    Curiously or not, that's where all of this started: my first take was to 
    think that arbiters were the solution, but *several* people pointed out 
    the current pool of RIPE arbiters was formed for a different purpose and 
    some of them might not have the skills (or the will...) to look into 
    hijacking cases.
    
    
    
    >> It shouldn't be the RIPE NCC, if the RIPE NCC is just following
    >> the defined policy.
    >
    > Honestly, I think it's the opposite. If the NCC terminates a
    > membership agreement, it should be liable for all the consequences of
    > a wrong decision no matter how exactly the decision is made and what
    > arbiters/experts/oracles/grandmoms were asked for a definitive advice.
    
    OK, but that is relative to *any* termination reason, be it immediate or 
    on a specific timescale (see RIPE-716).
    
    I would like to know how many dutch court cases were filed to the date 
    against RIPE NCC about wrongful membership agreement termination.

Interesting question, and I will say that if we can have that information (I guess Marco can ask "officially" for it to other RIRs) for all the RIRs, even better. This is public information, but you need to search for it, while the RIRs know very well all their cases (if there are any).
    
    
    Thanks,
    Carlos
    
    ps: we've missed grandmoms on version 2.0's text. sorry about that :-))
    
    
    > --
    > Töma
    >



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.