[anti-abuse-wg] 2019-03 New Policy Proposal (BGP Hijacking is a RIPE Policy Violation)

Hi,


On Mon, 1 Apr 2019, Nick Hilliard wrote:

> Carlos Friaças wrote on 01/04/2019 16:51:
>> But let's also focus on two words:
>> 
>> "punishing" -- no, that's not the goal, the goal is to close a clear gap 
>> and make people understand that hijacking is not tolerated.
>
> The explicit aim of this proposal is that if the expert panel judges that you 
> have hijacked prefixes, you will be punished by the RIPE NCC.

...in a *persistent* way.

The same way it happens with lack of payment, or delivering false/forged 
information to the NCC.



> https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/punish
>
> "Inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offence, 
> especially a transgression of a legal or moral code."
>
>> "weaponises" -- how?
>
> "weaponises" == turns the registry into something to beat people with, i.e. 
> punishment by withdrawal of resources.

It shouldn't be their decision, it should be the experts' decision.



<< Here you might have forgot to comment about "weaponized IXPs" :-) >>



>>> So, rather than talking about how much we want to do something
>>> about BGP hijacking, maybe we should discuss what grounds we'd have
>>> for refusing to deregister resources for things that other people
>>> in the RIPE NCC service region feel constitutes abuse, and where
>>> the line would be drawn?  Let's start with political dissent and
>>> gay rights.
>> 
>> None. But 2019-03 is exclusively about BGP hijacking.
>
> Ok, so you accept that this is the thin end of the wedge and that if the RIPE 
> community were to accept this proposal, we would have no grounds - none - to 
> argue against other people who propose withdrawal of resources for things 
> that they find offensive.

No. Anyone proposing anything would have to go through the PDP.

For me "jurisdiction" (and lack of agreement throughout the region) would 
be enough, as arguments.

It's possibly my fault, but (in this long thread) i still fail to read 
from someone that hijacking is not offensive, and thus it should be 
tolerated by the community. I understand you are trying to take this into 
a grey area by comparison with other examples/abuse.


Regards,
Carlos