[anti-abuse-wg] 2019-03 New Policy Proposal (BGP Hijacking is a RIPE Policy Violation)

Hi Nick, All,


On Mon, 1 Apr 2019, Nick Hilliard wrote:

> Gert Doering wrote on 01/04/2019 13:54:
>> Sorry, this is getting ridiculous.
>
> It's worse than that: the proposal is that the RIPE NCC weaponises its 
> registry data and turns it into a mechanism for punishing people when they do 
> things that other people don't like.


"...when they do things other people don't like, making the whole 
registry system to become ridiculous and causing actual harm to one or 
more third parties."

But let's also focus on two words:

"punishing" -- no, that's not the goal, the goal is to close a clear gap 
and make people understand that hijacking is not tolerated.
As i understand it, if this leads to a LIR closure, the same party can 
still buy services from another LIR, or they can open a new one (not sure 
if there is any period that stops an organisation to achieve LIR status 
after a closure).

"weaponises" -- how? the NCC is not who is deciding if there was any 
intentional hijacking.


Does the IXP you work for have any rules against hijacking?
If customer A complains to the IXP customer B is announcing them an 
hijack, will the IXP just sit and do nothing? Or do you think the IXP is 
being "weaponized"?




> BGP hijacking is just the start, but there is an endless list of things which 
> are considered offensive or illegal in some or all jurisdictions in the RIPE 
> NCC service area, e.g. spam, porn, offending political leaders, gambling, 
> drugs, other religions, political dissent, blasphemy and so on.

Here we fully agree!

But BGP hijacking is a common denominator in terms of harmful practices, 
something which is purely technical, where a simple rule is missing.

Regarding jurisdiction, is there any corner in the service region where 
impersonating someone or fraud (just to name a few) is not part of the 
legal system?



> The RIPE NCC service area comprises around 72 countries and has over 1 
> billion inhabitants, and if you have a service area that large, everybody is 
> going to be offended by something.

I hope everyone, in each of those 72 economies (and beyond) will feel 
offended when someone is deliberately announcing routes to cause harm to 
third parties.



> So, rather than talking about how much we want to do something about BGP 
> hijacking, maybe we should discuss what grounds we'd have for refusing to 
> deregister resources for things that other people in the RIPE NCC service 
> region feel constitutes abuse, and where the line would be drawn?  Let's 
> start with political dissent and gay rights.

None. But 2019-03 is exclusively about BGP hijacking.



Regards,
Carlos



> Nick
>