[anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse

I am so happy that you are asking this question :)

This is what causes much confusion with people, including experienced
netadmins, sysadmins and many very technically advanced people.

You can use any email address as an example: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net

Please think about it for a second:

How would you go about sending spam to this email address without using
an IP number?

It is not possible for Internet abuse to exist - without an IP number.

So, for this wg : EVERYTHING that is abuse is powered by IP numbers.

Andre

On Tue, 29 May 2018 15:51:38 +0200
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> wrote:

> How come you can't send spam without the IP?
> 
> I can look for new registered domains, use whois for catching the
> emails that appear there, and then spam them.
> 
> This is something that I experience everytime I register a new
> domain, tons of spams to the whois recently created email contacts.
> 
> Regards,
> Jordi
>  
>  
> 
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de ox
> <andre at ox.co.za> Organización: ox.co.za
> Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo de 2018, 15:39
> Para: <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
> Asunto: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse
> 
>     
>     Please correct me if you think I am wrong:
>     
>     1.
>     You cannot send spam without an IP number.
>     
>     2.
>     You cannot do any abuse without an IP number.
>     
>     
>     I can do a whois on any.com or some.eu and have a tech or abuse
> email address and WORKING registrar contact information.
>     
>     I cannot do a whois on ALL ripe assigned ipv4 resources and get
>     accurate and/or working resource contact information.
>     
>     
>     So, where the problem is - is easy to see, no?
>     
>     Andre
>     
>     
>     On Tue, 29 May 2018 15:12:27 +0200
>     JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
> wrote: 
>     > I consider an abuse the fact of collecting emails and sending
>     > spam. Also, if you have a domain, you can see what IPs are
>     > related to it for other kinds of abuses.
>     > 
>     > Regards,
>     > Jordi
>     >  
>     >  
>     > 
>     > -----Mensaje original-----
>     > De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en nombre de
>     > ox <andre at ox.co.za> Organización: ox.co.za
>     > Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo de 2018, 14:32
>     > Para: <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
>     > Asunto: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email
>     > abuse
>     > 
>     >     
>     >     Abuse has nothing to do with a domain name.
>     >     
>     >     Nobody can abuse anyone armed only with a domain name.
>     >     
>     >     Without using an actual IP number, a domain name can do
>     > nothing. 
>     >     Protecting the privacy of a domain registrant is absolutely
>     > correct. 
>     >     The trouble is that network operators are resistant to
>     > accept the responsibility (costs, issues, trouble) of managing
>     > abuse 
>     >     Even if you do a whois right now, you will find a functional
>     > registrar abuse email address.
>     >     
>     >     The same cannot yet be said for the resources assigned by
>     > this RR 
>     >     Andre
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     On Tue, 29 May 2018 14:00:44 +0200
>     >     JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via anti-abuse-wg
>     > <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> wrote:   
>     >     > Whois, as everything in the life, has good and bad things.
>     >     > Against: Privacy invaded. In fact, when you register a new
>     >     > domain and you associate a visible email to it, in a
>     >     > matter of hours, you get spam.
>     >     > Pro: If it is a real email with humans behind, it
>     >     > facilitates the resolution of abuse cases.
>     >     > The balance is always difficult ...
>     >     > Regards,
>     >     > Jordi    
>     >        
>     >     > 
>     >     > De: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> en
>     >     > nombre de Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>     >     > Fecha: martes, 29 de mayo de 2018, 13:49 Para: Suresh
>     >     > Ramasubramanian <ops.lists at gmail.com>,
>     >     > "anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> Asunto:
>     >     > Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR - positive effects on email abuse
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Even in those cases, whois is but one tool that helps
>     >     > identify bad actors by means of violating privacy rights
>     >     > of millions. There are other tools, like DNS traces,
>     >     > reviews of hosting infrastructures used, etc. all of
>     >     > which will continue to be available for the uses you
>     >     > refer to.
>     >     > 
>     >     > And maybe it is time to ensure law enforcement is better
>     >     > equipped to deal with such issues earlier and faster. Up
>     >     > to now, governments have been afforded the luxury of
>     >     > being able to underfund such efforts as others were doing
>     >     > their jobs for them. Maybe this will lead to better law
>     >     > enforcement and international cooperation.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Best,
>     >     > 
>     >     > Volker
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Am 29.05.2018 um 13:34 schrieb Suresh Ramasubramanian:
>     >     > 
>     >     > This unfortunately is entirely wrong and short sighted
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > All security practitioners protect our respective
>     >     > services and networks against a wide variety of threats
>     >     > including malware and phish campaigns.
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Very few of those go on to be referred to law enforcement
>     >     > and that only after an extensive dossier is built
>     >     > internally to show that the perps in question justify a -
>     >     > frequently cross border - law enforcement action.
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Security and protecting user privacy go hand in hand and
>     >     > I wish more people realised that, and maybe also realised
>     >     > the resource and administrative lconstraints and limits
>     >     > law enforcement is saddled with 
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > From: anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on
>     >     > behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>     >     > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 4:06:18 PM To:
>     >     > anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] GDPR
>     >     > - positive effects on email abuse 
>     >     > 
>     >     >  
>     >     > 
>     >     > Wow, the level of narrowmindedness and fearmongering is
>     >     > high with this one.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Crime online will likely not increase due to GDPR. It may
>     >     > be more difficult to detect and take action against due
>     >     > to the loss of one tool amongst many, but ultimately that
>     >     > tool was illegal to begin with as it violated the rights
>     >     > to privacy of millions of domain owners.
>     >     > 
>     >     > "Private researchers" and other vigilantes or rent-a-cops
>     >     > will indeed have a more difficult time to obtain such
>     >     > data as they will finally have to do so by legal means,
>     >     > but then they are in an untenable position anyway, taking
>     >     > upon themselves functions that should be fulfilled by
>     >     > actual law enforcement.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Ultimately, private data if internet users no longer being
>     >     > public will lead to better registration data for those
>     >     > with a right to access it. Those with no such rights will
>     >     > have to figure out alternate routes to do their jobs that
>     >     > does not violate the rights of millions.
>     >     > 
>     >     > Best,
>     >     > 
>     >     > Volker
>     >     > 
>     >     > 
>     >     > 
>     >     > Am 28.05.2018 um 21:13 schrieb Ronald F. Guilmette:    
>     >     > > ox <andre at ox.co.za> wrote:
>     >     > >      
>     >     > >> Firstly I would like to comment that the
>     >     > >> multinationals and their funded trade groups (and
>     >     > >> their lobby orgs) shouted from the rooftops that if
>     >     > >> the GDPR came into effect, Internet in the EU would
>     >     > >> collapse and there would be digital doom and
>     >     > >> gloom.      
>     >     > > I am not a multinational.  I am an individual volunteer
>     >     > > anti-abuse researcher. And yet even -I- have told
>     >     > > everyone I know that the disappearance of public WHOIS
>     >     > > is and will be an epic catastrophy. If there was
>     >     > > cybercrime on the Internet before, it will be
>     >     > > increased, going forward, by tenfold.     
>     >     > >> How wrong they were (hindsight is perfect - as we can
>     >     > >> all clearly see)      
>     >     > > Be patient.  The change has only just occurred.
>     >     > >      
>     >     > >> The EU has truly become a world and global leader in
>     >     > >> the reclamation of individual rights and the free
>     >     > >> Internet.      
>     >     > > Here on this side of the pond, one usually has to turn
>     >     > > on Fox News in order to be treated to this level of
>     >     > > rubbish.
>     >     > >
>     >     > > The only thing that has happened is that private
>     >     > > researchers the world over have been effectively
>     >     > > blinded due to the supreme arogance and idiocy of
>     >     > > europeans... europeans who, in their religious fervor,
>     >     > > have come to view it as their holy obligation to foist
>     >     > > their demented notions onto the rest of the world,
>     >     > > whether any of the rest of us like it or not.
>     >     > >
>     >     > > Meanwhile the malevolent forces of state-sponsored
>     >     > > intrigue and violation of human rights are and shall
>     >     > > remain totally unfettered and unaffected by GDPR, as
>     >     > > they will be the first ones to obtain special
>     >     > > exemptions allowing them to continue to see WHOIS data.
>     >     > > The CIA, NSA, BDN, and FSB are undoubtedly celebrating
>     >     > > the arrival of GDPR, as it further entrenches their
>     >     > > special status at the expense of the great unwashes
>     >     > > masses.
>     >     > >
>     >     > > Friday was a sad day for both transparency and
>     >     > > democracy, but all across the globe both criminals and
>     >     > > statists undoubtedly celebrated it with toasts of
>     >     > > champaign.
>     >     > >
>     >     > >
>     >     > > Regards,
>     >     > > rfg
>     >     > >      
>     >     >     
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     
>     > 
>     > 
>     > 
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> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
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> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
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