[anti-abuse-wg] anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 67, Issue 5

If you have an issue with how any particular ticket was handled, please 
send me the ticket reference (privately) and I will have a look.

This name-calling and posing does nothing.

Best,

Volker


Am 06.06.2017 um 17:04 schrieb Marilson:
> On May 31, 2017 Volker wrote:
> > stop accusing each other of criminal activity
> > If you have evidence of criminal activities, report them to the
> > appropriate authorities.
> On Jun 4, 2017 I answered:
> >> talk to your colleague Ralf Ramm of your KS teamabuse about our 
> message exchange from 14 to 28-08-2015. It's a small example of how 
> the bad ISPs act. See the proof of the crime and see the falsehood and 
> complicity of your teamabuse.
> On Jun 6, 2017 1:37 PM Volker wrote:
> >>> Can we remove this person from the list or at least
> >>> revoke posting rights?
> >>> Let's not feed the troll any more and return this list
> >>> to its original function.
> Hey Volker, we're not in the Middle Ages ... I guess. Instead ask to 
> shut up my mouth you should explain the acts of your KS team abuse, 
> after all my accusations are false, are not they? Why so much fear?
> Marilson
> *From:* anti-abuse-wg-request at ripe.net 
> <mailto:anti-abuse-wg-request at ripe.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 06, 2017 8:37 AM
> *To:* anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
> *Subject:* anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 67, Issue 5
> Send anti-abuse-wg mailing list submissions to
> anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mailman.ripe.net/
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> anti-abuse-wg-request at ripe.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> anti-abuse-wg-owner at ripe.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of anti-abuse-wg digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: fake abuse lists (Marilson)
>    2. Re: fake abuse lists (Volker Greimann)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2017 05:08:21 -0300
> From: "Marilson" <marilson.mapa at gmail.com>
> To: "Esa Laitinen" <esa at laitinen.org>
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] fake abuse lists
> Message-ID: <5301B998D85649778CA58552794F2AB4 at xPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Esa,
>
> Thank you for your consideration. If there is a people with authority 
> to give moral lesson is the Finnish. A nation that respects ethnic 
> diversity and is descended from more than 120 nationalities. One day I 
> will attend the opera festival in the medieval castle surrounded by 
> the blue waters of the Saimaa.
>
> Let me question some of your concepts.
>
> > you don't call people nazi unless they have been convicted. 
> Specially not somebody in Germany. Neither do you call them criminal 
> unless convicted.
>
> I accessed the Finland newspapers (highly prized press freedom) and 
> they called that person who allegedly detonated a bomb in Manchester, 
> a terrorist. Has he been convicted?
> Using your words I would say that people should not act like a Nazi, 
> especially not somebody in Germany.
> People are condemned for their acts not because they are criminal or 
> because of their convictions or ideologies. Thankfully we have the 
> guarantee of the Law of being what we want, including of being a Nazi.
>
> > I don't understand what your goal when you use this kind of 
> language. Are you trying to change something to a positive direction, 
> or are you just letting pressure out? If former, you're failing.
>
> Why do you think I'm failing? Everything is running exactly as I 
> planned. Thanks to you, Andre, Brian, Jeffrey, Volker. My goal is to 
> expose a ISP owner to their colleagues inside a community that, like 
> other communities or categories or professions, they act in the 
> defense of their members, corporatism, in a flagrant false ethics. 
> When you have to deal with this false ethics and with people who use 
> crystal balls to form knowledge and prejudge, the strategy is to 
> provoke such people's reaction.
>
> Anyway, thanks
> Marilson
>
> From: Esa Laitinen
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 9:59 AM
> To: Marilson
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] fake abuse lists
>
> Hi, Marilson
>
> the language you use is not what will bring anything forward. You just 
> ruin whatever respect you had from others.
>
> you don't call people nazi unless they have been convicted. Specially 
> not somebody in Germany. Neither do you call them criminal unless 
> convicted.
>
> I don't understand what your goal when you use this kind of language. 
> Are you trying to change something to a positive direction, or are you 
> just letting pressure out? If former, you're failing. The people you 
> convince that kind of language are not the ones that can change something.
>
> In any case, the moderator told to pipe it down. I hope you do.
>
> yours,
>
> esa
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 2:16 PM Marilson <marilson.mapa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   On May 28 Andre wrote:
>   > I am not a criminal and not a criminal company. So, I do
>   > not have criminal competitors.
>
>   Although this phrase is beyond my capacity for understanding, I 
> think I should greet you for not fearing unfair competition.
>
>   > Just on a side note, my opinion is that you calling Martin Hetzner a
>   > Nazi (and a sociopath) is not acceptable behavior.
>
>
>   I'll explain to you what is not acceptable behavior:
>   1- It is you being customer of a provider owner with a professional 
> life history worthy of an arrogant sociopath with the attitudes of a 
> Nazi despot - reread the curriculum I related.
>   2- It is you acting like some Afrikaners who defended the principles 
> of the National Socialist Party - read Nazism - that gave support to 
> the maintenance of apartheid in your homeland. Heil Hetzner!
>   3- It is an ISP owner refusing to suspend a reported customer 
> numerous times, for 18 months, with evidence of the practice of crime.
>   4- It is an ISP owner to allow a victim of his client to spend 18 
> months denouncing the same scam, the same scammer.
>
>   > It is hate speech in itself and disrespectful to civil society.
>
>   A hate speech: If I lived in Germany I would have sued this tramp. 
> >From where I am I can only insult and report him to the world.
>   Disrespect to civil society are his relationships with sociopath 
> despots like Putin, are his attacks on freedom of the press, are his 
> pursuits those who fight spammers and give support for reported criminals.
>   Disrespect to civil society it is to defend and hire the services of 
> people who should be arrested.
>
>   Heil Coetzee!
>   Marilson
>
>
>   From: ox
>   Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2017 2:21 AM
>   To: Marilson
>   Cc: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
>   Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] fake abuse lists
>   On Sat, 27 May 2017 21:26:42 -0300
>   "Marilson" <marilson.mapa at gmail.com> wrote:
>   >
>   > If you continue to call your competitors from criminal companies
>   > someone will call you Pot. :)
>   >
>   No, firstly, there is no competition between lists... All lists have
>   different data and sometimes different priorities and focus. (Did you
>   see the SORBS lists 30 days, recent, all time - this has time focus -
>   some lists adds weight for RIR, some lists focus on actual syndicates,
>   some on actual bot tech, some aggregate bots & syndicates - for
>   example - on your one IP number you may be hosting 900 domains and
>   only one of those belong to a crime syndicate sending spear or to a
>   child pornographer. - if you are on that list - find your criminal - 
> and get rid of them...
>   some lists are rolled by hand, dedicated and with zero (or next to
>   zero) false positives. some lists randomly list ip numbers, etc.
>
>   a list is a list and the quality of a list depends on the 
> maintenance thereof and
>   the value it ads to society. This value is sometimes displayed in the
>   'score' or numerical weight attached to programs similar to spamassassin
>   assigned to a list by independent users.
>
>   Secondly, I am not a criminal and not a criminal company. So, I do
>   not have criminal competitors.
>
>   Lastly, if there is a list that is listing other lists for no reason 
> and also lists
>   honeynets (traps) and victims - the advantage for doing that is only to
>   criminal enterprise.
>
>   Just on a side note, my opinion is that you calling Martin Hetzner a
>   Nazi (and a sociopath) is not acceptable behavior.
>
>   It is hate speech in itself and disrespectful to civil society.
>
>   Andre
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> </ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/attachments/20170604/048fd7f4/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2017 13:37:22 +0200
> From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> To: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] fake abuse lists
> Message-ID: <ba7bb5bd-2cd9-d847-22c8-e4f149b8ea34 at key-systems.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Can we remove this person from the list or at least revoke posting
> rights? This is not getting anywhere and destroys the list as useful
> medium to discuss abuse fighting methods.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
>
> Am 04.06.2017 um 10:08 schrieb Marilson:
> > Hi Esa,
> > Thank you for your consideration. If there is a people with authority
> > to give moral lesson is the Finnish. A nation that respects ethnic
> > diversity and is descended from more than 120 nationalities.
> > One day I will attend the opera festival in the medieval castle
> > surrounded by the blue waters of the Saimaa.
> > Let me question some of your concepts.
> > > you don't call people nazi unless they have been convicted.
> > Specially not somebody in Germany. Neither do you call them criminal
> > unless convicted.
> > I accessed the Finland newspapers (highly prized press freedom) and
> > they called that person who allegedly detonated a bomb in Manchester,
> > a terrorist. Has he been convicted?
> > Using your words I would say that people should not act like a Nazi,
> > especially not somebody in Germany.
> > People are condemned for their acts not because they are criminal or
> > because of their convictions or ideologies. Thankfully we have the
> > guarantee of the Law of being what we want, including of being a Nazi.
> > > I don't understand what your goal when you use this kind of
> > language. Are you trying to change something to a positive direction,
> > or are you just letting pressure out? If former, you're failing.
> > Why do you think I'm failing? Everything is running exactly as I
> > planned. Thanks to you, Andre, Brian, Jeffrey, Volker. My goal is to
> > expose a ISP owner to their colleagues inside a community that, like
> > other communities or categories or professions, they act in the
> > defense of their members, corporatism, in a flagrant false ethics.
> > When you have to deal with this false ethics and with people who use
> > crystal balls to form knowledge and prejudge, the strategy is to
> > provoke such people's reaction.
> > Anyway, thanks
> > Marilson
> > *From:* Esa Laitinen <mailto:esa at laitinen.org>
> > *Sent:* Monday, May 29, 2017 9:59 AM
> > *To:* Marilson <mailto:marilson.mapa at gmail.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: [anti-abuse-wg] fake abuse lists
> > Hi, Marilson
> > the language you use is not what will bring anything forward. You just
> > ruin whatever respect you had from others.
> > you don't call people nazi unless they have been convicted. Specially
> > not somebody in Germany. Neither do you call them criminal unless
> > convicted.
> > I don't understand what your goal when you use this kind of language.
> > Are you trying to change something to a positive direction, or are you
> > just letting pressure out? If former, you're failing. The people you
> > convince that kind of language are not the ones that can change 
> something.
> > In any case, the moderator told to pipe it down. I hope you do.
> > yours,
> > esa
> > On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 2:16 PM Marilson <marilson.mapa at gmail.com
> > <mailto:marilson.mapa at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     On May 28 Andre wrote:
> >     > I am not a criminal and not a criminal company. So, I do
> >     > not have criminal competitors.
> >     Although this phrase is beyond my capacity for understanding, I
> >     think I should greet you for not fearing unfair competition.
> >     > Just on a side note, my opinion is that you calling Martin 
> Hetzner a
> >     > Nazi (and a sociopath) is not acceptable behavior.
> >     I'll explain to you what is not acceptable behavior:
> >     1- It is you being customer of a provider owner with a
> >     professional life history worthy of an arrogant sociopath with the
> >     attitudes of a Nazi despot - reread the curriculum I related.
> >     2- It is you acting like some Afrikaners who defended the
> >     principles of the National Socialist Party - read Nazism - that
> >     gave support to the maintenance of apartheid in your homeland.
> >     Heil Hetzner!
> >     3- It is an ISP owner refusing to suspend a reported customer
> >     numerous times, for 18 months, with evidence of the practice of 
> crime.
> >     4- It is an ISP owner to allow a victim of his client to spend 18
> >     months denouncing the same scam, the same scammer.
> >     > It is hate speech in itself and disrespectful to civil society.
> >
> >     A hate speech: If I lived in Germany I would have sued this tramp.
> >     From where I am I can only insult and report him to the world.
> >     Disrespect to civil society are his relationships with sociopath
> >     despots like Putin, are his attacks on freedom of the press, are
> >     his pursuits those who fight spammers and give support for
> >     reported criminals.
> >     Disrespect to civil society it is to defend and hire the services
> >     of people who should be arrested.
> >     Heil Coetzee!
> >     Marilson
> >     *From:* ox <mailto:andre at ox.co.za>
> >     *Sent:* Sunday, May 28, 2017 2:21 AM
> >     *To:* Marilson <mailto:marilson.mapa at gmail.com>
> >     *Cc:* anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net <mailto:anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
> >     *Subject:* Re: [anti-abuse-wg] fake abuse lists
> >     On Sat, 27 May 2017 21:26:42 -0300
> >     "Marilson" <marilson.mapa at gmail.com
> >     <mailto:marilson.mapa at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >     >
> >     > If you continue to call your competitors from criminal companies
> >     > someone will call you Pot. :)
> >     >
> >     No, firstly, there is no competition between lists... All lists have
> >     different data and sometimes different priorities and focus. 
> (Did you
> >     see the SORBS lists 30 days, recent, all time - this has time 
> focus -
> >     some lists adds weight for RIR, some lists focus on actual 
> syndicates,
> >     some on actual bot tech, some aggregate bots & syndicates - for
> >     example - on your one IP number you may be hosting 900 domains and
> >     only one of those belong to a crime syndicate sending spear or to a
> >     child pornographer. - if you are on that list - find your criminal
> >     - and get rid of them...
> >     some lists are rolled by hand, dedicated and with zero (or next to
> >     zero) false positives. some lists randomly list ip numbers, etc.
> >
> >     a list is a list and the quality of a list depends on the
> >     maintenance thereof and
> >     the value it ads to society. This value is sometimes displayed 
> in the
> >     'score' or numerical weight attached to programs similar to
> >     spamassassin
> >     assigned to a list by independent users.
> >
> >     Secondly, I am not a criminal and not a criminal company. So, I do
> >     not have criminal competitors.
> >
> >     Lastly, if there is a list that is listing other lists for no
> >     reason and also lists
> >     honeynets (traps) and victims - the advantage for doing that is
> >     only to
> >     criminal enterprise.
> >
> >     Just on a side note, my opinion is that you calling Martin Hetzner a
> >     Nazi (and a sociopath) is not acceptable behavior.
> >
> >     It is hate speech in itself and disrespectful to civil society.
> >
> >     Andre
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verf?gung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Gr??en,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur f?r den 
> angegebenen Empf?nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, 
> Ver?ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empf?nger ist 
> unzul?ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht f?r Sie bestimmt sein, so 
> bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung 
> zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to 
> contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay 
> updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to 
> whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any 
> content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely 
> on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected 
> this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or 
> contacting us by telephone.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> </ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/attachments/20170606/ddba2675/attachment.html>
>
> End of anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 67, Issue 5
> ********************************************

-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: </ripe/mail/archives/anti-abuse-wg/attachments/20170606/5d88722b/attachment.html>