[anti-abuse-wg] Abuse: dnsbl - trust and other factors

There is something that Spamhaus, after operating a respected and widely used block list since the 90s, understands and you don't 

The focus isn't just blocking spam, any random wannabe bofh can do that. The focus is on as far as possible not blocking legitimate email, and blocking / unblocking based on clear and maturely implemented criteria 

--srs

> On 10-Aug-2016, at 1:38 PM, andre at ox.co.za wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:19:21 +0200
> Antonio Prado <thinkofit at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> On 8/10/16 8:28 AM, andre at ox.co.za wrote:
>>> So why is this? - It is all about trust.
>> 
>> well, trust has to be earned.
>> 
> agreed, trust is reputation. In the case of a blacklist, it is quite
> simple though - if it is transparent, like mine superblock.ascams.com 
> each and every listing has been abusive and either is not responding to
> abuse complaints or is simply ongoing in the abuse...
> 
>> just two recent examples:
>> 
> thank you so much! lets deal with that - please see below each
> of your examples
> 
>> Aug 10 08:52:16 zimbra-1 postfix/smtpd[27024]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT
>> from 66-220-144-147.outmail.facebook.com[66.220.144.147]: 554 5.7.1
>> Service unavailable; Client host [66.220.144.147] blocked using
>> superblock.ascams.com; 66.220.144.147 Listed For Abuse. To delist
>> please email del at ascams.com;
>> from=<notification+zj4ooysyaz0y at facebookmail.com>
>> to=<mylegitaddress at mylegitdomain.tld> proto=ESMTP
>> helo=<mx-out.facebook.com>
>> 
> Yes! because 66.220.144.147 is BLOCKED for abuse 
> 66.220.144.147 sends email spam, on an ongoing basis, to FAKE people
> and, even after receiving three or more abuse reports, is still sending
> the same SPAM to the same fake people.
> 
> So, what I am saying: facebook.com sends spam to example at example.com
> Facebook then receives 3+ spam reports/complaints
> And then
> After that
> Facebook.com STILL sends spam to the same example at example.com
> 
> So, Facebook.com (66.220.144.147) is blacklisted for spam abuse.
> 
> Thank you, Antonio - for pointing this example out - This is why we
> cannot stop spam! - the SENDERS or transmitters of spam - are never
> punished - but we have to field complaints from our USERS when the
> senders MIX legit email with spam email.
> 
> next example below the example
> 
>> Aug  9 17:57:23 smtpfe01 postfix/smtpd[15131]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT
>> from o4.email.wetransfer.com[192.254.123.89]: 554 5.7.1 Service
>> unavailable; Client host [192.254.123.89] blocked using
>> superblock.ascams.com; 192.254.123.89 Listed For Abuse. To delist
>> please email del at ascams.com; from=<alegitaddress at email.wetransfer.com>
>> to=<mylegitaddress at mylegitdomain.tld> proto=ESMTP
>> helo=<o4.email.wetransfer.com>
>> 
> 192.254.123.89 - EXACLTY the same as Facebook.com - transmits spam to
> fake people/spam traps - and does not do anything about spam abuse
> complaints!
> 
>> therefore I'm forced to delete superblock.ascams.com
> 
> indeed... - this is why the spam problem persists... yet, if you were
> to continue using superblock.ascams.com - you may actually force the
> senders of spam to CHANGE their abusive and crappy behavior
> 
> But we, society, we do not have the BALLS to do that.
> 
> Can we at least have the decency to be honest with ourselves?
> 
> Why lie to ourselves?
> 
> We do not want to solve the spam abuse problem.
> 
> Andre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> --
>> antonio
>> 
> 
>