[anti-abuse-wg] Abusive behavior by Google Inc

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In message , andre at ox.co.za writes

>> >Example: @209.85.218.43
>> >http://www.scammed.by/scam.php?id=185816
>> This is a complex example involving an email delivered to a gmail
>> account and forwarded from there to Yahoo
>> I cannot see "failed_precondition" anywhere on that page at all :-(
>> 
>209.85.218.43 is simply one of the many google IP numbers currently
>listed for spam, phish, virus and other abuse...

OK ... so the URL was a complete red herring, and the complexity of what
was going on there is completely irrelevant

>I have headers for the gmail bounce message: "read error:
>generic::failed_precondition: read error (0): error"  and I seriously
>doubt if gmail would try to deny this bounce - as I do not have one,
>but many many headers of many many different google ip numbers.

It is impossible to do anything but speculate without the actual email
and full headers to hand.

>So, it is not a discussion about whether this is happening or about what
>is happening - but a discussion about what it means that it is
>happening.
>
>Simply: What it means is that Google is not returning emails with any
>acceptable bounce message but choosing to bounce emails with cryptic
>custom messages that IMPLY that the receiver email servers are somehow
>broken.
>
>This has serious implications for everyone that is not gmail 

that entirely escapes me ... why would an email bounce (whether RFC
compliant or not) which is generated by gmail [when one of their
customers sends you email and you elect to refuse delivery] have any
implications for anyone else at all ?

>This serves to INCREASE their monopoly as well as HURT smaller hosts -
>we lost three customers today, because of EVIL Google.

I suspect that these customers have learnt that you are setting great
store by SORBS's opinion that accepting email from Google is undesirable
(which I think places you in a very small minority of mail service
providers). If these customers are keen to receive email sent to them by
their friends at Google then I cannot see that your service is suitable
for their needs.

Do you think this RIPE WG has a role in assisting them in seeking a
refund ? That might be an interesting topic to explore.

- -- 
richard                                                  Richard Clayton

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a        Benjamin
little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.    Franklin

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