[anti-abuse-wg] [db-wg] RIPE NCC to set abuse-c for remaining organisation with ASNs or other resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC

Hi Tim

On 16/12/2015 15:58, Tim Bruijnzeels wrote:
> Hi,
>
>>>>
>>>> To expedite the creation of abuse contacts we've just deployed
>>>> an enhancement to the RIPE Database web interface.
>>>>
>>>> Whenever you create a new organisation object or you edit an
>>>> existing one that does not have an abuse contact set, we will
>>>> display a warning and offer a simple abuse-c creation
>>>> workflow.
>>>
>>> An "abuse-c:" attribute is only required in an ORGANISATION
>>> object if it is referenced by a resource object. So the wording
>>> in this revised web interface may be a bit confusing to users. It
>>> would be better if you do a check on the specified ORGANISATION
>>> object and only display this warning if this object should have
>>> an "abuse-c:" reference.
>>
>> From what I understood, warning is not an error and doesn't prevent
>> the creation of the ORGANISATION object.
>
> If you submit the object in the web interface with an empty value for
> the abuse-c, it will give you the following error: "Please provide an
> Abuse-c or remove the attribute if you would like to do it later"
>
> So you can explicitly remove the attribute if you want, but we try to
> guide people into adding the abuse-c because it's a good idea to have
> it in general (even if it's not strictly required),

Sorry but this is just wrong. The whole design of "abuse-c:" attribute 
was to use hierarchical inheritance in resource objects. You only put it 
where it is needed and it is inherited by any more specific objects. It 
should NOT be duplicated where it is not required. That leads to 
redundant information being stored in the database. This copy can be 
forgotten about when the authoritative version referenced from a less 
specific object is changed and leave invalid data in the database which 
will override the valid data for some resources.


and we often find
> that organisation objects are created for sponsored PI or ASN
> resources without this, and this adds unnecessary overhead to request
> handling because then we will need to ask for this then.

If you know this is why you are creating this ORGANISATION object then 
it is reasonable to add an "abuse-c:" at this point. But the wording on 
your new web form should be clear and suggest adding an "abuse-c:" only 
IF it is needed.

>
>> Moreover, during object creation procedure it is unknown what for
>> the ORGANISATION object is created.

You should not be creating objects in the database if you don't know 
what their immediate use is for. If you do not currently handle any 
abuse complaints then you should not include an "abuse-c:" attribute in 
a newly created ORGANISATION object. This is confusing and redundant 
information and may override the valid contact data.

cheers
denis

>
> Indeed, we don't know this at creation time.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim
>
>>
>> All the best, Piotr
>>
>> -- gucio -> Piotr Strzyżewski E-mail: Piotr.Strzyzewski at polsl.pl
>>
>