[anti-abuse-wg] anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 46, Issue 4

Guilleme, Marilson,  completely agree. 

Almost all the people in this list is only concern on its own business and, as several of them are working for ISP's and are in the good boys side,  they are not interested on changing the rules. But my point of view a few bad guys are doing great harm to the use and distribution of IP addresses as the only remedy to defend from those few bad guys is to apply through the courts blocking the IP addresses used for illegal purposes. These blockages occur at the country level layer, hopefully soon it will be possible to the European Union level. The end result is increasingly IP blocks affected by blockages in different countries or regions, and therefore not reusable.

I think the good guys have to think about it...

Ángel

-----Mensaje original-----
De: anti-abuse-wg [mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net] En nombre de Ronald F. Guilmette
Enviado el: lunes, 24 de agosto de 2015 23:29
Para: anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
Asunto: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] anti-abuse-wg Digest, Vol 46, Issue 4


In message <48A6D44E0E4B43369169FEE5EB478058 at SuperPC>,
"Marilson" <marilson.mapa at gmail.com> wrote:

>... But keeping the focus in the domain registrant it is like insisting 
>blindly on a dead-end road.
>...
>{... bad stuff about Enzu snipped...}
>...
>With providers of that kind, spammers is a lesser evil. I understand 
>that the focus should be directed to companies that provide the means 
>and tools for the commission of that crime.

I wish that I understood what any of this had to do with the xortify.com project.  I do not see ANY connection, either to that project, or to my questions about it.

Regarding Enzu, yes, they have been on my personal bad list for a very long time.  But they are hardly alone, and certainly not unique.  There are many other providers that are just as bad, or worse, when it comes to harboring spammers and other net-miscreants.  (In at least one case that I researched, the guy who owned the ISP had set up another, parallel company, which was itself dedicated to snowshoe spamming... using the IP address blocks of the "legitimate" ISP operation, of course.  But beyond that, there are quite certainly companies, located in China, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and other places that are quite entirely happy to allow any and all manner of hacking and other forms of criminality on their networks.)

Regarding your suggestion that anti-abuse efforts should focus on the net's many abuse-tolerant providers, rather than on individual spammers and other kinds of individual naughty fellows, I can only say that I am in 100% agreement with you on this, and that I have been saying this exact thing to anyone and everyone who would listen for many years now.
(In particular, I have repeatedly urged various Spamhaus people to use their domain-based blacklist to blacklist the main domain names of various bad ISPs/NSPs... as a way of focusing the attention of these providers on the abundant problems on their respective networks.  But my requests/suggestions along these lines have fallen on deaf ears.)

Lastly, an important point that I believe you may not have grasped is that calling for any sort of disiplinary actions directed at ISPs and/or NSPs is not at all likely to find a receptive audience here, on this mailing list.  The majority of subscribers to this list are likely to be executives or employees of exactly such companies, and even if they believe strongly that their companies are among the good ones, there is... and always has been... a deep reluctance on the part of the entire Internet connectivity industry to accept any sort of rules or regulations, even if they serve the common good, and even if they are created and promoted from within the industry itself.  The connectivity industry is still the "Wild West", and nobody in it wants anybody else telling them what to do, or not do.  This pervasive attitude is certainly driven by an almost religious faith in laissez-faire everything, but also, in equal measures, by pride (both personal and in some cases national), and testosterone.  None of these factors is going away any time soon.


Regards,
rfg