[anti-abuse-wg] Working Group Charter

Sasha,
Sascha Luck wrote the following on 09/05/2014 15:58:
> Brian,
>
> On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 02:55:47PM +0100, Brian Nisbet wrote:
>> All systems and mechanisms, technical and non-technical used to
>> create, control and make money from network abuse.
>
> to begin with, this sentence appears to fail grammatically even
> in the original text. Does "create, control and make" really refer to
> "money"?
> I also consider the new text over-broad. Without defining what "network
> abuse" is, you are potentially putting any commercial activity on the
> Internet under the remit of this WG.

Well, it's essentially the same sentence that nobody has had a problem 
with, so I feel the meaning has been clear. To create abuse, to control 
abuse and to make money from abuse.

>> While areas such as cybersquatting or hosting illegal content are not
>> seen as a central part of the working group's remit, they are
>> unquestionably bound up in other aspects of network abuse and, as
>> such, may well be areas of interest."
>
> This is a statement without any evidence to back it up. Why should
> "hosting illegal content" (illegal in which jurisdiction, under which
> laws?) be "unquestionably" bound up with "other forms of network abuse"?
>
> As an example from the RIPE service region, hosting a gay website is
> now, AIUI, illegal in Russia. How, exactly, would this be "bound up with
> other forms of network abuse"?

IANAL, neither are you, but I feel positive the Russian Federation would 
disagree with that blanket statement. :) That said, I do take your 
point. We could just go with:

"While areas such as cybersquatting or hosting illegal content are not 
seen as a central part of the working group's remit, nor does the WG 
presume to pass judgement on such activity, aspects of these subjects 
may overlap with forms of network abuse and so may, from time to time, 
form part of the WG's activities & discussions."

> Without a clear definition, arrived at by way of consensus, of what
> "network abuse" is, I would strenuously object to such an expansion of
> the scope of this WG.

And we're never going to get this. My intention here is to recognise 
some of the discussion and work done within the WG has already touched 
on these items. Also, new members of the community often wish to speak 
to the WG or WG Chairs about them. It is not an attempt (as always) to 
be any sort of network police, nor to pass judgement on such activities 
in different jurisdictions.

Please suggest other text if you have it.

Thanks,

Brian,
Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG