[anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Reporting Issues

Hi Frederik,

I am such a person (DH3195-RIPE). I entered my email a long time ago. Unlike passwords that expire and accounts that get locked when not used, this vital contact info is never re-validated. We never get mail that says: "Ripe wants to confirm that you are still having Role X in your organisation. Click here to confirm.". A full-inbox bounce could trigger a phone call. Etc.  Ripe should charge money for not keeping records up to date. 

In my (ESP) world, an email address that has not been used by the list-owner for over a year is a risk for a spam trap ;-). 

Bye,

David

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Fredrik Widell [mailto:fredrik at resilans.se] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 15 maart 2013 09:30
Aan: MailPlus| David Hofstee
CC: Arnold; Denis Walker; Tobias Knecht; anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Reporting Issues

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013, MailPlus| David Hofstee wrote:



There is a way of always reaching the correct recipients when it comes to reporting abuse, which it seems every single abuse-department is neglecting to use.

Why not take a look at the source, see which Autonomous System is actually announcing the prefix the address belongs to, it is quite hard to hide that information.

(there are a lot of free looking-glasses on the Internet for those of you who does not have access to a router, or, why not use ripes riswhois :)

When you know the AS, return to the whois-databases and look for the contact information for that Autonomous System, and contact them instead, they will always know which the offending customer is, they can always do something about the problem.

And the best part, it actually works :)







> I have never seen an email asking me to confirm that I still do the stuff that is listed in my local RIR...
>
> David
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net 
> [mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net] Namens Arnold
> Verzonden: vrijdag 15 maart 2013 09:29
> Aan: Denis Walker
> CC: Tobias Knecht; anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net
> Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Reporting Issues
>
> On 3/14/2013 3:28 AM, Denis Walker wrote:
>>
>> The RIPE Database contains many email addresses. These addresses are 
>> there for different reasons. Many attributes may point you to an 
>> email address, for example:
>> admin-c:
>> tech-c:
>> zone-c:
>> ping-hdl:
>> notify:
>> ref-nfy:
>> mnt-ref:
>> changed:
>>
>> and abuse-mailbox:
>>
>> Only this last one is specifically intended for abuse complaints. The 
>> problem we had in the past is that this attribute was always optional 
>> and if used could be put in many different places.
> I applaud the motion to make the attribute mandatory; whether it will have much effect in reality I'll wait and see.
>
> I realize there are many addresses in the RIPE database and if at all possible - for records without an abuse -email address - I tend to address my report to the admin-c, as I see those people as the most likely to have any influence on getting the 'problem' fixed.
>
>> I think in this context 'usable' may have different interpretations.
>> One of the functions of the RIPE Database is for engineers to be able 
>> to contact each other to resolve network and routing problems. 
>> Sending an abuse report to a network engineer because he has a 
>> 'usable' email address in the database may not achieve the result you were expecting.
>>
> No disagreement on this from me. I merely pointed out that for _my_ purposes, the Abuse Finder is less useful than the IANA files or the RIPE query page.
>> The Abuse Finder tool returns the email addresses that have been 
>> provided for receiving abuse reports. If no such address has been 
>> provided the tool will return nothing, even if there are other email 
>> addresses in the database that are intended for other purposes.
> Understood and accepted, but I have to and have had to work with what there was available.
> If the available resources change, with time my approach will change as well.
>>
>> Over the next few months, as the abuse-c: data is entered into the 
>> database, the Abuse Finder tool will return more positive results.
>> This will be the quickest and most reliable way to find abuse 
>> contacts for any resource.
> Hope your expectations will become reality.
>
>
> Regards
> Arnold
>
>

-- 

Mvh

 	Fredrik Widell Resilans AB http://www.resilans.se/
 	mail:   info at resilans.se , fredrik at resilans.se
 	phone:  +46 8 688 11 82