[anti-abuse-wg] spam definition

Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2010, at 11:02, Frank Gadegast wrote:
>> <snip>

HELLO MICHELE,

>>
>> And this should be completely free for the member, how
>> he categorizes the complaint. He should be able
>> to select "has nothing to do with us", "out of scope",
>> "no real complaint" up to "server was hacked here",
>> "we are investigating this currently" to
>> "problem fixed" or whatever else category
>> we like to include.
> 
> Are you going to pay my staff to waste their time with spurious complaints?
> 
> Is RIPE?

What is more likely.
That you get more reports about real abuse or more reports
about funny things or things that dont have anything to do
with you ?

And what is more likely: that you receive more reports
about something that has nothing to do with you than
you get already on your normal info email address ?
You will have to deal with them too.

I dont think that the new system will create more
work on false reports for you that much.

>> And now the point:
>> RIPE NCC could then easily track, wich member
>> is doing nothing !
>> And thats what we need to find out.
> 
> No - it's what you in your little world would like to find out

Sure Michele, a spammer does not want to be identified.
An ISP thats lazy and does not care, what he lazyness
is causing others, does not like to get identified either.

>> And maybe some bad members find a trick
>> to give feedback in an automatic way, with
>> real comments, that look like, if they
>> are really doing something, maybe to fool
>> us all.
> 
> And again - are you going to pay my staff to waste their time dealing with thousands of spurious complaints? Because that's basically what you're expecting us to do

See above.

>> Not at all.
>> We cannot reach consensus about what spam or abuse is.
>>
>> So lets forget it, lets talk about complaints and resulting
>> abuse reports.
> 
> You cannot simply "forget it"
> 
> You need to define clearly the boundaries of what your idea is meant to cover.

Why, my system does not like to "cover" abuse.
It likes to deliver abuse reports more easily, more standarized
and likes to find out, what member is handling abuse reports
and who doesnt.

> if you cannot do that then it should be rejected immediately

Again, the next version will clearly state, that its not about
abuse, its about complaints.

> 
>>>    And thats excatly what is the background idea of a spam report
>>>    delivery system.
>>>    Let the recipient decide, what he think hes abuse about.
>>> So, are you talking about abuse, or are you talking about spam?
>> Im taking about abuse reports and complaints.
> 
> Provide proper definitions of these or at least boundaries

That what all spammers want, to define abuse, what we can do.
And that the main reason I hear here for year and that
"need to define abuse" is the old criteria, the lazy
members repeated here constantly to block all effort
from the others, that are handling complaints and
that like to get rid of all these criminal attacks
(my opinion).

Now the spammers can be afraid, because we can finally
jump over that hurdle ;o)


Kind regards, Frank

> 
> 
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
> ICANN Accredited Registrar
> http://www.blacknight.com/
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> 
> 


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