[anti-abuse-wg] spam definition

Esa Laitinen wrote:
> 

Hi,

> 2010/4/11 Frank Gadegast <phade at www.powerweb.de 
> <mailto:phade at www.powerweb.de>>
> 
>     I think that everything IS spam, what somebody, who receives it, is
>     bothered
>     with, because he did no want it, he feel offended, did not ask for it
>     or whatever personal reason.
> 
> 
> Really? So the newsletter you've subscribed yesterday, received the 
> first issue today and was happy about it, turns into spam tomorrow when 
> they publish a story that annoys you?
> 
> Now we're entering very interesting terrain...

No, why ?
I wanted the newsletter and I can unsubscribe.

But even then: when Im to stupid to unsubscribe and get angry
about it and like to complain ?
Whats wrong with that ?

If I complain about that the webpage of the ISP looks stupid
I could complain about it, if I dont like the weather in finland,
I could complain about, and thats still something the ISP
should take care of.
You maybe know that yourself, that customers sometimes
think, that you as your ISP are responsible for nearly
everything. But the customer still complains.

HOW the ISP is taking care of this, is a really different
point.

Like I outlined (about 20 times already) the system
should start with a backlink included by RIPEs system,
that enables the ISP to give feedback, how he treated
the complaint.

And this should be completely free for the member, how
he categorizes the complaint. He should be able
to select "has nothing to do with us", "out of scope",
"no real complaint" up to "server was hacked here",
"we are investigating this currently" to
"problem fixed" or whatever else category
we like to include.

And now the point:
RIPE NCC could then easily track, wich member
is doing nothing !
And thats what we need to find out.

And maybe some bad members find a trick
to give feedback in an automatic way, with
real comments, that look like, if they
are really doing something, maybe to fool
us all.

But: first RIPE NCC can still find those
that are doing nothing and probably
after a while and a bit more expirience,
they find even those, that are trying to
fool us (e.g. by comparing own data
to the data from other blacklists ?)

>     You have a mail address and receive stuff you did not ask for,
>     that has nothing to do with business or interest.
> 
> 
> No, but it is something to do with consent, don't you think? The consent 
> should be the most important thing when considering if something is spam.

Not at all.
We cannot reach consensus about what spam or abuse is.

So lets forget it, lets talk about complaints and resulting
abuse reports.

>     And thats excatly what is the background idea of a spam report
>     delivery system.
>     Let the recipient decide, what he think hes abuse about.
> 
> So, are you talking about abuse, or are you talking about spam?

Im taking about abuse reports and complaints.

> -- 
> Esa Laitinen
> Tel. +41 76 200 2870
> skype/yahoo: reunaesa


-- 

Kind regards, Frank
--
PHADE Software - PowerWeb                       http://www.powerweb.de
Inh. Dipl.-Inform. Frank Gadegast             mailto:frank at powerweb.de
Schinkelstrasse 17                                fon: +49 33200 52920
14558 Nuthetal OT Rehbruecke, Germany             fax: +49 33200 52921
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