<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="auto">>>If you wish to fight these companies, make it hard for everyone. E.g. delay every single transfer, of any prefix. Or prevent every single transfer, no matter when the prefix was first allocated. Fair it wouldn’t be, but with an elite thinking they know best, will it ever be? </div></div><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div>I think as long as it is for every single transfer and applied to all members, it is fair. </div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Arash</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 7:17 PM Rick Bakker <<a href="mailto:rick@bakker-it.eu">rick@bakker-it.eu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">+1 </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Let’s try and stop the elite formed by said old members… </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Also: how objective can it be said this working group is, when a prominent member himself, is part of companies that do exactly what is said to try and prevent here? Cough cough cough… </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Looking back at 2019, forming shell companies to obtain /22s, to merge the companies and the LIRs, only to “broker” (hint) this exact space… This smells like actively trying to put competition into disadvantage. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If you wish to fight these companies, make it hard for everyone. E.g. delay every single transfer, of any prefix. Or prevent every single transfer, no matter when the prefix was first allocated. Fair it wouldn’t be, but with an elite thinking they know best, will it ever be? </div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Op wo 8 dec. 2021 om 08:03 schreef Arash Naderpour <<a href="mailto:arash_mpc@parsun.com" target="_blank">arash_mpc@parsun.com</a>><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">>My suggestion would be along the lines what was proposed on the APWG<br>>meeting already - earmark these /24s as non-transferrable, ever.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>I don't think it is a good idea to split the IPv4 addresses into different types, transferable and non-transferrable. it puts those newcomers in a disadvantageous position compared to the older members, it is not fair and doesn't fix anything in long term.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Arash </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 1:56 AM Gert Doering <<a href="mailto:gert@space.net" target="_blank">gert@space.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
On Tue, Dec 07, 2021 at 02:29:15PM +0000, Erik Bais wrote:<br>
> As WG chairs we would like to see the position of the WG on the topic and what could be seen as a possible solution. <br>
<br>
As a member of the WG, I do share the sentiment that the intent of the<br>
"IPv4 runout" policies have been "ensure that late comers to the game<br>
can have a bit of IPv4 space, to number their IPv6 translators", and<br>
not "grab some space for free, and sell it for more money elsewhere".<br>
<br>
I do not think this can be fixed on the AGM level ("one legal entity<br>
can only have one LIR account") - we've been there, in the rush to /22s,<br>
and all it does it "make people hide behind shell companies", so in<br>
the end, the address space goes out anyway, but registry quality suffers.<br>
<br>
Trying to make the NCC require even more paperwork isn't going to stop<br>
those that want to game the system, but will impact everyone else by<br>
making the NCC more annoying to deal with.<br>
<br>
<br>
My suggestion would be along the lines what was proposed on the APWG<br>
meeting already - earmark these /24s as non-transferrable, ever.<br>
<br>
<br>
Consequences:<br>
<br>
- there is no more financial incentive to "get one cheap, sell it expensive"<br>
<br>
- if you need space to run your business, this is exactly what it is<br>
there for - you can still sell your business (with the /24), you<br>
just need to keep the LIR account. But that's as with other <br>
business assets.<br>
<br>
- if you want to merge multiple LIR accounts, all having their own<br>
/24 - then you need to keep around these accounts, or return some<br>
of the /24s.<br>
- corrolary: if you use these /24s to number your IPv6 translators,<br>
then renumbering this translator into "your other /24" is actually<br>
not very hard. <br>
- corrolary2: If you use the /24s to directly number your customers,<br>
you missed the boat already (wearing my RIPE unicorn t-shirt today).<br>
<br>
Gert Doering<br>
-- NetMaster</blockquote></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
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</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Kind Regards,</font></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Rick Bakker</span><br></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Director<br></span><br></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Bakker IT</font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Dutch Chamber of Commerce number: 71593721</font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">VAT registration ID: NL002414398B43<br></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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