<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span class=EstiloCorreo18><span style='font-size:12.0pt'></span></span><span class=EstiloCorreo18><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Erik,</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’m not sure if I’m being able to explain myself …<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I know about ripe-639.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>What I’m saying is that we force the change of status from non-legacy to legacy if addresses are transferred to a new member or an existing member, as both of them will have all the legal bindings already with RIPE NCC.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>639 was defined a couple of years before the transfers policy. It may be perfectly possible that at that time it was not considered this aspect.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I know that every region is different, but we live in a global Internet, and it is surprising to me that we are the only out of 5 RIRs, that has not done this already.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 14/7/19 14:40, "address-policy-wg en nombre de Erik Bais" <<a href="mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net">address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:ebais@a2b-internet.com">ebais@a2b-internet.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Hi Jordy, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Legacy resources don’t fall under the contractual obligations that we as a community have setup. Financial or policy, unless decided/afreed upon by legacy resources themselves. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>That is described in the policy document RIPE NCC services for legacy resource holders. ( <a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-639">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-639</a> ) <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If you would view the RIPE NCC as a holder of IP space, that provides resources when a membership is present. If a member would not pay, the resources could be revoked. Legacy holders didn’t receive the resources from RIPE NCC and their resources can’t be revoked. As the RIPE NCC isn’t the top holder of the resource. If legacy is handed back, it would ( should ) go to IANA ..<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>With the legacy services policy it was decided that the historic rights of legacy holders are honored and only if they decide that they want to include themselves in the community and services, it is possible. But only by their own decision. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Stripping the legacy resource status after a transfer, would change the holder of the resource from the seller to the rir instead of the seller to the buyer. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>The RIPE NCC is providing an administrative service to maintain an accurate registry, also including Legacy resources.. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Changing the legal status of legacy resources by force, will open up the RIPE NCC for liability charges and due to its monopoly in the RIPE region, that is not a good plan ... and knowing some Legacy holders, that is going to be a huge no-go. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><br>Your last email stated that non-legacy holder to non-legacy holder transfers are outside the system .. if we regard the RIPE policies inside the system ... non-legacy resources are ‘IN’ the system.. because you would say that they would be PI holders or RIPE NCC members ( LIR’s ) ... <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Legacy holder can be outside ( no contract ) the rir status .. or by their own choice inside the system .. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Hope this explains a bit. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Erik Bais <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'>Op 13 jul. 2019 om 14:49 heeft JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg <<a href="mailto:address-policy-wg@ripe.net">address-policy-wg@ripe.net</a>> het volgende geschreven:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Hi Gert,<br><br>If the received of the transfer is already bound by contracts with RIPE, he is the one that will "convert" the resources to non-legacy accepting that transfer.<br><br>Of course, transfers from non-legacy holders to non-legacy holders are outside of the system.<br><br>Regards,<br>Jordi<br>@jordipalet<br><br><br><br>El 13/7/19 14:43, "address-policy-wg en nombre de Gert Doering" <<a href="mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net">address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:gert@space.net">gert@space.net</a>> escribió:<br><br> Hi,<br><br> On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 02:27:03PM +0200, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via address-policy-wg wrote:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>If legacy holders, want to transfers those resources and escape from fulfilling the policies and contractual requirements, now they can do it in RIPE, but not in other regions.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:35.4pt'><br> Repeat with me: there is no contract of any sort that the RIPE community<br> can use to make legacy resource holders do *anything* unless they want<br> it themselves.<br><br> (And if they *want* to bring their space under the RIPE umbrella, they<br> can do it today already).<br><br> Gert Doering<br> -- NetMaster<br> -- <br> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?<br><br> SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. 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