<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Tom,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 22 Sep 2017, at 15:37, Tom Hill <<a href="mailto:tom.hill@bytemark.co.uk" class="">tom.hill@bytemark.co.uk</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class="">Because I don't see a way in which this policy will change anyone's<br class="">behaviour, or incentivise them differently over the current policy, I<br class="">don't believe it needs to be changed. If you would like, we can take<br class="">IPv6 adoption out of the argument completely, and I can still be solely<br class="">against it for the reason of changing the status quo on acceptable<br class="">prefix sizes for no perceivable gain to anyone.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>The proposal doesn't have a goal of changing anyone's behaviour or incentivising anyone. The goal is to quadruple the number of remaining IPv4 applications that RIPE NCC can fulfil.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>So the gain is to those three quarters of applications that would otherwise be unsuccessful.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">So the problem we face with the DFZ I think is not specifically<br class="">"smallest prefix in the table" but "growth of number of entries over<br class="">time." Entries over time keeps going up, and RIR policies have very<br class="">successfully kept that growth contained.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">"I've deaggregated our /19 to /24s to prevent hijacks." is the problem.<br class=""><br class="">Legitimate traffic engineering is not the issue here, it's the blatant<br class="">disregard for the cost of TCAM across the DFZ versus the<br class="">selfish/misguided security requirements of certain network operators.<br class=""><br class="">The concern is that those persons will, very quickly, deaggregate to the<br class="">minimum possible prefix size.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>It's a fair concern; I suggest filters specific to the last /8 boundary as a way to contain the risk.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">If you then fear that this deaggregation would spread to the rest of the<br class="">DFZ: yes, I share this fear. In fact I think we can be very sure that<br class="">this is coming, one way or another; Randy explained how based on history<br class="">earlier in the thread.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Yes, and I pointed out to Randy in response that the stakes are hell of<br class="">a lot higher than they were in 1995. Like, "we're not the butt of all<br class="">jokes" higher.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div>I hear you. I think it even supports your point in this case- if deaggregation could spread when the stakes were lower, we may be very sure that it'll spread when the stakes are higher. I hope I was able to address that point in the surrounding paragraphs.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best regards,</div><div class="">Anna</div><br class=""><div class=""> <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">-- <br class="">Anna Wilson<br class="">Service Desk Manager<br class="">HEAnet CLG, Ireland’s National Education and Research Network<br class="">1st Floor, 5 George’s Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland<br class="">+353 (0)1 6609040 <a href="mailto:anna.wilson@heanet.ie" class="">anna.wilson@heanet.ie</a> <a href="http://www.heanet.ie" class="">www.heanet.ie</a><br class="">Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270</div> </div> <br class=""></div></body></html>