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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Carsten,<br>
<br>
not only that the loophole exists, but the RIPE NCC has even
pointed it out in an RIPE Labs article (and several previous RIPE
Meetings):<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/ripe-ncc-membership-statistics-2014">https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/ripe-ncc-membership-statistics-2014</a><br>
<br>
I think that the more we talk about it, the more this loophole
will be (ab)used. The part that was just theoretical was
estimating how long it will take a company to decide that instead
of going to the market, they could actually go to the RIPE NCC and
get a /16 or maybe a /12 at �2.3 - �3.4 per IP (depending in which
quarter you decide to do it). <br>
- this policy proposal will still not fix this issue, will just
raise even more awareness.. this policy proposal is just trying to
patch the transfer policy. we still need to discuss whether we
want to touch the mergers and acquisitions process.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
elvis<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/03/15 09:13, DOI (BIT I 5) wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Hi Elvis,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I agree with your proposal. I�m interested in
the fact: Are there such �loophole� cases right now or is it
a theoretical problem, that could be happen if 2015-01 would
not be accepted?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Carsten<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>�</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">Von:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> address-policy-wg
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net">mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces@ripe.net</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Elvis Daniel Velea<br>
<b>Gese</b></span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">ndet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Montag, 9. M�rz 2015 17:32<br>
<b>An:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:address-policy-wg@ripe.net">address-policy-wg@ripe.net</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [address-policy-wg] 2015-01 New
Policy Proposal (Alignment ofTransfer Requirements for
IPv4 Allocations)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>�</o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi everyone,<br>
<br>
I have thinking at what to answer regarding the comments on
this proposal.<br>
<br>
Firstly, the /22 from the last /8 policy proposal aimed to
create a method for anyone to receive at least a few (1024)
IPv4 addresses by becoming a member of the RIPE NCC.<br>
Even then, the proposers had noted that anyone can open
multiple LIRs and receive from the RIPE NCC more than 1024 IP
addresses and asked the RIPE NCC to be vigilant. [1]<br>
<br>
What happens now is not in the spirit of that policy proposal
as the /22 from the RIPE NCC does not have the two years
holding period so a few found a way to make a business using
this loophole.<br>
This policy proposal is just trying to add the same holding
period for a transfer of the /22 as it is already for the rest
of the allocations made by the RIPE NCC.<br>
<br>
<br>
While I do agree that if the RIPE NCC free pool would be
depleted, the market would takeover and normalize the price,
the community has decided to have IPv4 addresses available for
anyone that<br>
�wants to become a member of the RIPE NCC and therefore
request & receive a /22. <br>
I think that a separate proposal could tackle this issue,
there were some discussions last year (if I remember
correctly) and some members of this community suggested the
increasing the limit from /22 to /21. That may deplete the
free pool faster, but it will still slowly bleed out in a few
years.<br>
<br>
If we do not agree that this policy proposal is fair and
needed, I predict that we will see more and more companies
opening LIRs just to make use of this loophole and make a
profit from selling one or more /22s from the last /8.<br>
Actually, this policy proposal may have already harmed the
free pool because if it does not get approved, more people
have found out of the loophole and nothing will stop them from
using it, they will have the endorsement of the community to
just go ahead and open multiple LIRs. <br>
I would not be surprised to see a very large ISP or (content)
hosting company setting up 1.000 LIRs to get 1million IP
addresses.. and if they setup 1024 LIRs in the same 'day' they
may even get a /12 as a contiguous block.
<br>
In that case, would you find it fair that if someone wants to
use a loophole (1024 times) they can get a /12 from the RIPE
NCC while others need to use the market?
<br>
<br>
Considering these, Martin (and whoever else does not like this
policy proposal), please let me know if you oppose to to this
proposal as it is written and if you have any suggestion on
what would be acceptable.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
Elvis<br>
<br>
�<br>
[1] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2010-02">https://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2010-02</a><br>
"Some organisations may set up multiple LIR registrations in
an effort to get more address space than proposed. The RIPE
NCC must be vigilant regarding these, but the authors accept
that it is hard to ensure complete compliance."<o:p></o:p></p>
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